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Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198851
06/26/25 02:16 AM
06/26/25 02:16 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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As we noted in the last posts, Christ's work in the heavenly sanctuary is outlined in Revelation, from His victory at the cross, to His inauguration as Priest to fulfil all the Covenant promises and stipulations, to His work of intercession in the Holy Place by the Altar of Incense, and moving into the Most Holy Place with the Golden censor filled with burning incense, where the ark of the covenant is seen, for final work of of judgment and atonement before probation closes, and on to the close of probation and final restoration.

How do the trumpets fit in? They too span time from the disciple John's day clear to restoration and place it in the context of the Great Controversy.

A parallel to help us understand can be seen in
1. The battle against Jericho
2. The the seven new moon festivals in ancient Israel

NEW MOON festivals in Israel

New moon festivals marked the beginning of a new month. Certain elders were responsible to watch at the end of each month for the first visible appearance of the new moon. As soon as the first sliver was seen, the fact was announced throughout the whole country by signal fires on the mountaintops and the blowing of trumpets. The Hebrew word for ?month? (hodesh) literally means ?new moon? or month,

In Numbers 10:10, God commands Moses to blow the trumpets on the New Moon Festival as a memorial sacrifice, a regular burnt offering, and a fellowship offering.
Ps. 81:3 Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.
"Hodesh" tends to be associated with "new beginning" and renewal.
An interesting fact is the Biblical record of a Benjaminite who had serious family problems, going to Moab and marrying a woman named Hodesh, and having seven sons (1 Chr. 8:8,9) Giving us a glimpse into the broader themes of struggle, hope and renewal.

Interestingly as well, there are seven "new moons' from the Passover month and the Day of Atonement. In the seventh month, as it begins the festival is more urgent, it is called "the day of trumpets".
In the seventh month, in the first day of
the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy
convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein; but ye shall offer an offering made by
fire unto the Lord." Lev. 23:24.
It was the warning that in ten days there would be the day of Atonement. Those ten days were to be spent in preparing their hearts and minds for the day of atonement.

Each of the six months had their trumpets sounding, calling for recommitment and renewal, but in the seventh month the trumpets gave a "loud" sound. Time was running out, the day of atonement was almost upon them.

JERICHO

Read the story in Joshua chapter six.
Seven priests were given seven trumpets.
Each day, for six days Israel's army, followed by the seven priests with trumpets, who were followed by the rest of Israel, marched once around Jericho, all the while the priests blowing their trumpets. But on those six days the people were silent, they marched around once and went back to their tents and nothing more happened.

On day seven, they silently marched around Jericho seven times in the same manner.
But as they finish the seventh lap, then Moses gave the command for them to shout and there was great noise of shouting and trumpets and the walls came tumbling down.

LESSONS LEARNED

1.There is a count down from the ratification of the covenant (Passover month or first New Moon blowing of the trumpet showing the covenant is ratified) to the seventh or last "day of trumpets" just before the day of atonement.

2, Just before all the cities of the world come tumbling down there is a "loud cry".

3. Though the gospel story is known in the world, yet the world stands as a fortified city against the gospel and it's truths. The historic trumpets coming in sequential warnings over the Christian era are all alerts that the day of judgment is coming.

4. The people of God, like the Israelites of old, need strong faith to believe the battle is the Lord's and to keep marching under the covenant of God, throughout all those generations, believing He will win in the end.

5. Near the end of the seventh trumpet there will be all the trumpets sounding.
All the former powers working against God will be exercising their deceptive arts, and much more.

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198852
06/26/25 03:02 AM
06/26/25 03:02 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Each trumpet was a wake up call. A call to turn and follow God and truth. They also depicted what happens when a people turn their backs on God's truth and righteousness and seek after their own righteousenss.

Each trumpet offers renewal for those who leave the false path and follow Jesus.
It is also a strong warning that life outside of Christ is not the liberty and freedom it's made out to be.
There are serious consequences. A day will come when probation closes and there is no more time to change the direction of our lives.

The trumpets in their historicist setting give us a build up of what the grand deceptions look like. Each has it's place in history. But history also shapes the future.


1, Jerusalem as a nation set themselves up against God's covenant as it was in Jesus.
Jesus came to His own people. Everything in their economy pointed to Jesus as their Messiah, but as a nation they rejected Him. The first trumpet shows those who had much light and much privileges and should have known Christ, were the first examples of the fate of those fighting against the truth and the Redeemer.
Quote
Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
9:13 But the people turned not unto him ..., neither do they seek the LORD of hosts.
9:14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.
9:5 with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.
Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.


In the last days, the Jewish people will be involved, it's all being set up as we speak, they are still expecting the Messiah to come and establish a forced rule upon earth in which they, as a nation, will be exalted. Remember that trumpet from history, and don't be surprised if you see a Messiah appear there in supernatural glory, attempting the setting up a rulership over the present world.
The real Jesus will never force anyone to be a citizen of His righteous kingdom.

2. A super world power united with Christianity and began enforcing doctrine, but lacked the heart, saving relationship with Christ. Remember that trumpet from history, and don't be surprised if you see another Constantine like figure or group of people, leaders of super world powers uniting with Christianity to impose doctrines and practices. Remember Rome fell like a great burning mountain into the sea of humanity causing great upheaval. (mountains are symbolic of powerful nations (Jer. 51:24-25) Rome had linked hands with Christianity but though Christianity was the state religion, the state was not very Christian. This will all be repeated -- a superpower to force the world to worship the beast and his image. But remember in God's covenant God promises to write His law upon our hearts and minds, He promises to change us into people who love and live righteousness.
But superpowers used to force worship and their version of righteousness will fall.
Quote
8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;


3. Poisoned water -- the poisoning of the living water of life (truth of scripture) to this day makes finding truth a challenge. With the skill of a deceptress hand the Bible can be made to seemingly teach many things that those who study with prayer and the Holy Spirit will see as inconsistent with the context of the whole Bible story of redemption. Those truths removed or changed in the early years of the papacy are still largely accepted today. (Sunday sacredness, state of the dead) None have gone away.

4. Poisoned water -- leads to darkness. It led to darkness in the middle ages, it will in the last days as well. An age of darkness isn't necessarily an age of lack of knowledge in the more general sense. There can be brilliant inventions, but the darkness the world sinks in, is a darkness devoid of the light of truth, righteousness and trust in Christ's transforming power.


Each trumpet was a wake up call. A call to turn and follow God and truth.

Each trumpet offers renewal if we leave the false path and follow Jesus.

5th trumpet
Eastern Byzantine Empire is having problems especially when the fourth crusade conquers their capital city, Constantinople, in 1204 AD, and set up their own form of government, leaving the empire in confusion and weak.
1261 Constantinople was recaptured and restored as the Byzantine capital. During that time period the Mongols were conquering much territory in the mid eastern countries but they didn't go after Constantinople, so the city was able to rebuild and grow stronger. Meanwhile the Ottomans were beginning to gather strength as well.
Basically, God gave the Byzantine Empire another 150 years to repent and come back to the truth. Byzantine was Christian, but in many respects had followed Roman in their departure of truth.
They didn't repent and at the end of the 5th trumpet they were conquered by the Ottomans.

Muslims and Christians will be active players in the endtime game as well.



God sends diversions in the form of Muslim armies, But God also sends the early reformers.
The opposition may seem intense but God is still there enabling, offering repentance and forgiveness, But many don't accept His gifts and continue in their rebellion against God.

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198854
06/26/25 02:21 PM
06/26/25 02:21 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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The seventh trumpet --
During it's sounding the Great Controversy will be ended.

Just like the seventh month of ancient Israel's pattern of festivals pointed out the events and sequence of Christ's redemptive work, from His sacrifice, in the first month, His pouring our of the Holy Spirit upon the churches, and onward till the seventh month marking the end events of the Great Controversy with the final day of atonement and joyous feast of tabernacles when the people rejoice their wilderness journey is ended. In like manner the seventh trumpet includes each of the following:

1. The New Moon trumpet (which sounded at the beginning of each of the seven months, now on the first day of the seventh month sounds with greater sound, alerting the day of atonement is at hand. This is the last call to repentance.
And so Millerites and fellow believers proclaimed the message "The hour of God's judgement is at hand", sounding a loud cry to wake up the nations.

2. It includes the day of atonement, when the high priest takes burning coals from the altar, places them in the golden censor to enter the Most Holy Place for the judgment work of cleansing. All who have their sins confessed and repented are cleansed and accounted part of God's people, cleansed by the sacrificial blood, while those who refused to search their hearts and confess and repent are "cut off" cast out from among God's people.
This is the investigative judgement when Christ presents the names of the overcomes before the Father and His angels, their names are permanently standing in the book of life, but those who clung to sin and only professed to be Christ's but held on to the world and it's sins, are removed from the book of life.

3. It includes the high priest leaving the temple as the work of atonement is done and casting down the censor, probation is closed, the Azazel, the one who led the world into sin, along with all who still carry their unconfessed, unrepented sins upon their own heads, are sent out, cut off, separated forever from God's grace and life.

4. It includes the final destruction of all sin.

5. It ends with eternal newness of life, joy and peace, the new heaven and earth, where sin and death no longer exist. Christ reigns, and God's people dwell forever with Him.

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198896
07/08/25 06:16 AM
07/08/25 06:16 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Some questions from the internet on the historicist interpretation of the trumpets::

Quote
If the major event of Christ entering the final phase of His ministration in 1844
was misinterpreted as His Second Coming, should we not reconsider the
interpretation of the Seven Trumpets also?

We could ask a similar question -- if the major event of Christ's atoning death upon the cross in 31 AD was misinterpreted as the time He was to set up an earthly kingdom and exalt the nation of Israel, should we not reconsider the interpretation of the Seventy weeks of Daniel 9 also?

Actually there are other Christians that think that way as well, but that kind of reasoning is rather problematic.
What that reasoning does is cast doubt on the time prophesies that lead up to an event, because they misunderstood what that event would look like at the end of the time prophecy.

As one Millerite wrote: "Those who believed that the prophetic calculations of time was right, and had really passed, now turned their attention to the examination of their position. It soon became apparent that the mistake was not in the time, but in the event to take place at the end of the period."
"It was not in their understanding of the sequence and dates in the prophecies that caused the disappointment, they found these to be sound, the mistake was in thinking: "Unto 2300 days, then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed." Dan.viii,13,14, was understood as though it read, Unto 2300 days, then Christ will come and raise the dead and change the living saints, etc. Here is the secret of our disappointment. We did not then understand the Sanctuary, and its cleansing, as we now may. The time was right."

" the major event of Christ entering the final phase of His ministration in 1844 "
is announced by the seventh trumpet which began to sound in 1844 and goes through to the end.
There we see the opening of another door in heaven that reveals the ARK of the testament. This points to 1844 when people realized Christ entered the Most Holy Phase of His priestly work.

It is during the time of the seventh trumpet that the mystery of God (how God can take a sinner and transform them) which is Christ's work of redeeming people, will be finished. The last work needed for that Redemption will be completed.
Notice that it is at the end of the seventh trumpet that there "were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. " (11:19) At the end of the seventh trumpet this occurs signaling the time of throwing down the censor doesn't happen until the seventh trumpet.
(8:5) cast [it] into the earth: and there were voices, and thundering, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

The other six happen BEFORE the seventh trumpet, the first sounding while the prophet John was still alive.

Here's another popular one:
Quote
The seven angels with the trumpets are the same seven angels that pour out the seven plagues It's not till the censor is cast to the earth and the Heavenly High Priest has finished His intercession that trumpets blow and vials of plagues are poured out
.


The trumpets are not the same as the plagues. True there are some similarities, but there are also major differences.
The bowl judgements/plagues are described as a new vision:
Revelation 15:1 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign.
Doesn't say it's the same angels or the same mission .

The reason the trumpets sound, is to urge people to REPENTANCE! There is still mercy.
.

During the vials "the wrath is fulfilled" meaning the "cup of iniquity" is full, there is only wrath left for them.

The trumpet judgments don't affect the whole earth, it's usually 1/3. It's progressive giving warnings and time to repent and turn.
The vial/plagues don't just affect 1/3, they affect the earth, it's universal. There is no more chance for "renewal".

While the trumpets may resemble "plagues" and be quite grievous, they are not the "last plagues",
the seven plagues just prior to the Second Advent are the last plagues, in fact implying that there were
other, previous plagues..

SEVEN TRUMPETSSEVEN PLAGUES

Highly Symbolic
Largely literal

Restricted, not universal, 1/3
Universal -World wide

1st Trumpet suggests destruction by fire, hail, blood, of symbolic grass, trees, -- people and their leaders
1st Plague talks of physical sores, a health issue

2nd trumpet speaks of symbolic burning mountain (great nation) falling into the symbolic sea (of mankind) a third turns to blood and dies, a third of ships get destroyed, sounds like the fall of a nation resulting in lose of life and power
Second plague, (literal) sea turns to blood and ALL in the sea die
3rd trumpet, a symbolic star falls (stars= church leaders Rev. 1:20) turns symbolic water into bitter wormwood, its bitterness causing many deaths.3rd plague, all fresh water turns to blood

4th Trumpet, symbolic darkness strikes 1/3 of sun, 1/3 of moon, 1/3 stars, 1/3 of day, 1/3 of night
4th plague, the sun gets seven times hotter, scorching people
5th trumpet, star falls, lots of smoke darkens sky, lots of symbolic locusts torturing people like scorpions, they look like warhorses, they have a king, and torment for five months. 5th plague, the beast's center of power gets plunged into darkness, people's sores are terrible painful, they bit their tongues in pain.
6th trumpet, Four messengers are released from the river Euphrates for 391 years, this results in destruction of 1/3 of people, Christ is still in the Holy Place at the altar of incense. A huge army of fire breathing horses goes forth, their power in their mouths and tails.Sixth plague, Euphrates dries up, evil spirits (demons) from dragon, beast and false prophet work to unit world against God
7th trumpet, time to judge the dead, the Most Holy Place with the ark of covenant is seen, Christ takes power to reign, thunder, lightning, great earthquake, voices, the kingdom becomes kingdom of our Lord and His Christ. 7th plague, Voice "It is Done" most terrible earthquake, cities collapse, mountains and islands disappear, huge hailstones, (second coming)
7th trumpet takes us from investigative judgment to the end of millennium7th plague takes us to the second coming


These differences, among others, show that the trumpets and the plagues are separate
and distinct. Their similarities show they both deal with the Great Controversy theme which is all about Satan's attempts to lead people away from God, BUT more importantly of God's work to save as many people as possible.
Christ is in the heavenly sanctuary, by the altar of incense, lifting the prayers, mixed with His merits before God, during the time those trumpets are sounding. He is working to save. It's not till the seventh trumpet that we see the Most Holy Place, and the signal He will soon leave the Most Holy Place when the thunder and lightning of the cast down censor begin.

In the last trumpet, Christ moves to the most Holy Place for the final work, which ends with the second coming and the final restoration --




The thought that the trumpets " must all happen at the End of the Age" after the censor is thrown down, falls apart when you consider that

1) There really is no purpose for trumpets to sound calling people to repentance after the censor is thrown down and the unjust remain unjust, there is no more intermediator.

2) We need to look beyond, and remember all who have ever lived will stand before the White Throne Judgement after the millennium. The unsaved dead will be resurrected. (Rev. 20) and they too will face the fact that they are lost. Those who place the trumpets after the censor is thrown down, seem to be saying these multitudes of people didn't need trumpet warnings of a last judgment.

3) The biggest problem is that placing the trumpets in the future, erases their examples of the deceptions that caused judgments to come. The "examples" are pushed aside, and the reader is left to create his own ideas of what these deceptions will be. It's basically stripping away the foundation.


The seven trumpets are judgement illustrated over the course of the Christian era. They expose deceptions to avoid, they still urge repentance, they gave historical timelines of second chances if people repent, showing God's mercy and longsuffering. They were limited in scope.. Yes, they are warnings of the plagues and final destruction, but they are not the LAST plagues, nor final destruction. It's the plagues that come when the censor is cast down, the trumpets show those plagues happen sometime during the seventh trumpet when the thunders, and lightning roll (the seven plagues are not the seven trumpets).

Though each trumpet represents certain aspects in the past -- the deceptions and pitfalls that have plagued God's people and sought to pull them out of God's care have not gone away, but rather strengthened and come to full maturity

Those who forget the past tend fall in the same traps.

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198913
07/13/25 09:50 PM
07/13/25 09:50 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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The message given the Adventist church is a PROPHETIC messages based on the Historicist method of interpretation of Daniel and Revelation.
To deny the historicist method basically undermines much of our doctrines, and though we find Adventist's who reject much of the historical method still trying to uphold our doctrines, yet, once the historicist method of interpretation is cast out, these doctrines rest very heavily on Ellen White and NOT on their newly "reconsidered" futuristic interpretations.

The two phase sanctuary message almost completely disappears from Revelation in the futurist treatment. And if one rejects the historicist approach in Daniel as well, it also disappears there. Some will try to make ALL sanctuary pictures in Revelation refer to the investigative judgment, thinking that proves the sanctuary doctrine better than the old historicist method. But no, it makes the two phase ministry in the sanctuary of no effect. When we run into people who disregard the sanctuary doctrine altogether, we find one of their first attacks upon it is insisting there is no "two phase" work.

Our pioneers had the right method of interpretation. The historicist method.
Did they have all the details -- no, they saw the trumpets as historical events rather disconnected with the overall Great Controversy theme.. When Adventism faced a real crises in the 1970's -80's God raised men who thoroughly studied these prophecies, in the framework of historicism, and I believe they were led by God. They did NOT depart from the historicist method of looking at the prophecy. They did not come up with something new and strange that totally threw off much of what what Adventists believed, no, , they took many cues from the pioneers writings, and by holding strictly to the proven pattern, found additional understanding. The pioneers were not wrong in seeing the trumpets sounding against both western Rome and eastern orthodox Byzantine Empire, but that was not all those trumpets were proclaiming, there was much more to the puzzle, and they found the special meaning that fits with prophetic picture.

The trumpets are not "isolated" "scattered" "moments of little importance to understanding the Great Controversy. They depict issues that developed, became prominent, and their reaped results over quite a bit of time.
They present a unified message urging people to turn from the destroying factor of sin and to seek the Savior.
Each trumpet has part of that unified message. Each trumpet covers a period of time when earth was experiencing a critical issue during the time that message was being developed and illustrated, so all would recognize the deceitfulness of satan's strategies, and the source to counter it.

Remember even though each of those trumpets were VERY relevant to the period of time which was the focus of conditions in the world. Their messages are by no means limited to their time any more than the messages to the seven churches (each focused on a period of the churches life) are not limited to that time.

John was writing this prophetic book in the first century of Christian history. Every single person from the time of the cross to the final restoration of all things were to be made aware of God's covenant through Jesus Christ, and that all MUST meet the climactic event when they realize they have passed the point of no return.
As horrible as disasters, wars, and persecution are, the worst, hopeless point is realizing when there is no more point of return, one is lost, shut out from life, love, hope, joy and peace forever. They could have had life and joy, but they had thrown it all away and turned their backs on the only ONE who could (and wanted very much) to save them.

John 5:28,29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Rev. 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

And Paul confirms:
Romans 4:10.12 for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ...So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Those trumpets were sounding all through Christian history calling people to make the right choice for Christ, amidst so much departure from truth.



Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198914
07/13/25 10:54 PM
07/13/25 10:54 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Indeed the Trumpets are NOT just some isolated scattered moments. They give warnings to all, with messages to all generations.

Especially that first trumpet!

It is absolutely key to the WHOLE salvation story, God's covenant to save all He possibly can save, and to realize this earth is on fast track to destruction.

Consider the historicist interpretation dealing with Jerusalem:
Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Green grass
Grass can be a symbol of the fragility of human life, but it says it's GREEN Grass -- Green grass is also symbolic of rest and peace from God, as implied in Psalm 23:2, where the Bible implies that God will "make us lie down in green pastures". Green pastures of rest and peace.
Jerusalem -- the very name means peace and rest.
It was God's higher plan for Jerusalem to be the center of peace, a place where people could find the rest and peace only God can give . But when they rejected the "Prince of Peace" all their peace was burned up.

Luke 19:41 And when Jesus drew near to Jerusalem he beheld the city, and wept over it,
19:42 Saying, If you would have known, even you, at least in this your day, the things which would have brought you peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
19:43 For the days shall come upon you, when your enemies shall cast a trench about you, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because you knew not the time of thy visitation.


To me this historical event is a warning --
A third of the trees (the leaders) were burnt up
The green grass was ALL burnt up

Their peace was gone. God's chosen people lost their peace and their city of peace, because they rejected the "Prince of Peace".

The message is: come to Jesus, accept Him as Lord and Savior.
Look to Him for He is life, He is everything we need to have life, hope and peace, not just now, but for all eternity.
Surrender yourself to Him, accept Him, follow Him, trust Him, make Him Lord of your life!
The world as we know it, is heading for destruction, and no one can escape that destruction EXCEPT through Jesus who came for just that purpose -- to seek and save sinners. If only they will accept Him, accept Him as LORD and Savior and follow Him.

Jerusalem (the old Jerusalem) is not the city of peace, it's peace is gone, burnt up, and any supernatural being manifesting itself there is NOT the real Jesus.
Why is there no peace there -- why will there never be any peace in old Jerusalem?
There is no peace without Jesus.

I don't understand why people reject or don't see this First Trumpet Warning for it's the very foundational warning concerning judgment.

Another writer puts it better than I can:
Quote
The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon his law. Dark are the records of human misery that earth has witnessed during its long centuries of crime. The heart sickens and the mind grows faint in contemplation. Terrible have been the results of rejecting the authority of Heaven.[GC 37]

The fall of Jerusalem is the most profound example of both Christ's great love (read the gospel of John and hear the very words of Jesus calling the people to come to Him for LIFE and salvation). The final years of witnessing, and the withdrawal of the Holy Spirit, rejected, ceasing to plead with those who reject Christ. Before the armies even came, people, no longer guided by the Holy Spirit were doing terrible things. Yes, Satan, let loose is a terrible, terrible thing.
Quote
When God's presence was finally withdrawn from the Jewish nation, priests and people knew it not. Though
under the control of Satan, and swayed by the most horrible and malignant passions, they still regarded themselves as the chosen of God....The forms of religion will be continued by a people from whom the Spirit of God has been finally withdrawn; and the Satanic zeal with which the prince of evil will inspire them for the accomplishment of his malignant designs, will bear the semblance of zeal for God. {GC88 615}

It was horrendous, even before the armies ended it. But ... all who were following Christ in trust and obedience were saved from that destruction.

That first trumpet is not some isolated scattered event. It is a loud and a full depiction of the tremendous danger of following Satan's lures, and neglecting the only protection, the only source of LIFE available to mankind through Jesus Christ, the ONE by which we must be saved, there is salvation in no other. (Acts 4:12) Yes, the 1st trumpet was (limited in the area affected) in the end the whole earth will be involved. All the trumpets were limited in their area ,(though they process and enlarge in the area they cover with each trumpet) which actually proves their historicist role --

The seventh trumpet also begins at a certain point in earth's history, 1844 when judgment begins in the courts of heaven. And it (the seventh trumpet), being the last, covers ALL the judgment scenes in which books are involved. Beginning with the heavenly court scene," ( the time of the dead, that they should be judged) it takes the reader to the second coming, when Christ delivers His people and the earth is left in ruins, {with thunder and lightning and voices) and on to the third coming, a thousand years later, when ALL will appear before the white throne, followed by all traces of sin burned up. The mystery of salvation is completed, The kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Then Christ is KING here on the earth which will be completely made new. Peace will be restored forever. That's when the mystery of salvation will be completely finished, the redeemed inherit the earth, and sin will never be again.

The trumpets are not just to let us know there is a time of intense trouble ahead. The real purpose of those trumpets is to warn people that they desperately need a Savior, they need to turn to Jesus.

He is the prince of Peace -- His New Jerusalem is the real city of peace. Like Abraham we follow Christ not looking for a literal earthly city but for, " a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." Heb 11:10

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198954
07/28/25 11:11 AM
07/28/25 11:11 AM
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The seventh trumpet and its relation to the Third Angel's Message.

Adventists profess to be proclaiming the Third Angel's Message, and calling people to come to Jesus to be sure to be registered in the book of life, that they may be delivered in that great day.

Those three angels' messages must now be sounded, with loud voice, to all the people of the whole world, calling them, by the power of the everlasting gospel, to the registry of their names in the Lamb's book of life. (He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Rev. 3:5)
We know from Rev. 20, that having our names in the Lamb's book of life, is the most important registry ever held. To have our names in that book means eternal life.

Sixth Trumpet ends, Seventh Trumpet begins:
The sixth trumpet angel's time period ended August, 1840. The Scripture say, "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly." Rev. 11:14. The second and third woe and the sixth and seventh trumpet are the same thing.

The seventh trumpet is described in scripture : "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." Rev. 11:18, 19.

MATCHING SEVENTH TRUMPET WITH THREE ANGEL'S MESSAGE
Now let's compare what we read in the description of the seventh trumpet and see how it matches Rev. 14:6-20, with it's striking similarity with the threefold angel's messages and the consequences of rejecting that threefold message. The section on the last seven plague,16:1-21 are but an explanation in full of those mentioned by the 7th trumpet in Rev. 11:18, 19 which result as the consequences of rejecting the three angel's message.

So lets bring together the statements of Rev. 11:18, 19, and the corresponding ones of chapters 14 and 16.

1. "And thy wrath is come." Rev. 11:18. The third angel say's
"If any man worship the beast and his image. . . . the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." 14:9, 10. And in the seven last plagues the wrath of God is filled up. 15:1, 6-8; 16.

2. "The time of the dead, that they should be judged." Rev. 11:18.
"I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven. . . . saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come." Rev.14:6, 7.

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament." Rev. 11:19. Why is this called the ark of his testament??It contains the "ten words" which are the basis of covenant. Ex. 34:28. "In the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee." Ex. 25:21. The covenant is all about rescuing mankind from the power of sin, and those commands are promises defining the character of the redeemed.

Now this temple of God in heaven is opened at the sounding of the seventh trumpet. There is shown the heavenly ark of his testament; and connected directly with this stands Rev. 14:12, the Third Angel's Message, saying, "Here are they that keep the commandments of God."

3. "That thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great." Rev. 11:18. This time of reward is at the coming of Christ; for he says: "Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Rev, 22:12. and in Luke 14:14 we also read : "Thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just."

After the three angels have given their message, we immediately read "I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle." "And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped." Rev. 14:14, 16. This harvest is the end of the world." Matt. 13:39.

4. "And He will destroy them which destroy the earth." Rev. 11:18.
Revelation 14 warns of this same destruction.
"Another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great wine press of the wrath of God." Rev. 14:17-19.


5. The seventh trumpet includes two "harvests".
1. The Son of God, reaping the harvest of the earth, gathering the wheat into the garner of God. This is the harvest God's people are longing to part in.
2. The other is to gather together those who are to be cast into the wine press of the wrath of God.
The first harvest are the fruits of the true Vine, Jesus Christ. All who abide in Christ, the true Vine, will be gathered by the angels into the kingdom of God, when he comes on the white cloud to reap the harvest of the earth. The others are called the clusters of the vine of the earth. Those have no connection with the heavenly Vine, but are of the earth, earthy. And when the clusters of this vine are gathered, it is only to be cast into the wine press of the wrath of God.

6. "And there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." Rev. 11:19. This matches the seventh plague.
We read in Rev. 16 -- "The seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. . . . And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

But the seven last plagues comprise the wrath of God, when they fall -- it is too late to change. This wrath is poured upon those who worship the Beast and his Image, upon those who refuse to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, who are fighting against God and against God's people.

It's obvious the Third Angel's Message is to warn people against being drawn away from their Creator and Savior, into that worship that has set itself up against God's rule. The three angels messages sounding with the seventh trumpet urgently call people to worship the Creator, that they may escape this wrath; and it calls them especially to "keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

This shows the seventh trumpet begins before the coming of the Lord. The three angel's messages are part of the seventh trumpet.
These three messages of Revelation 14, must be preached before the wrath which is foretold takes place. The seventh trumpet angel sounds the warning with the last urgent message to the world of Rev. 14.. . It is therefore absolutely certain that in the days of the voice of the seventh trumpet angel, not only does it proclaim the end of earth as we know it, but when he shall begin to sound, the Third Angel's Message of Revelation 14 must be preached to the world before the final end.


Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198955
07/29/25 05:11 AM
07/29/25 05:11 AM
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The Third Angel's Message is very much part of the Seventh Trumpet

SAID the angel: "In the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God shall be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." Rev. 10:7.

This is speaking of the seventh trumpet angel.

But what is the "MYSTERY OF GOD"?

No, it's not that the world is heading to sure destruction, that is not a mystery, it's the sure result of sin.

The Mystery of God is that He can take sinful human beings trapped in the destructive nature of sin and transform them into willing, joyful, loyal and loving citizens of God's kingdom! The Mystery of God is the GOSPEL.
This Mystery will reach it's glorious climax when the redeemed receive immortality and enter the glorious kingdom of God forever!

The Mystery Ordained before Creation
1 Corinthians 2:7 The hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.
Ephesians 3:8-11, 17-19 grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: to the intent that now. . . might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord. . . . That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

Made Known by Revelation
Eph. 3:3 Paul says, "By revelation he made known unto me the mystery."
And in Galatians 1:11, 12, he says, "The gospel which was preached of me is not after man... but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." The gospel came by revelation, and was made known. "The mystery of Christ, which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel."

Gospel preaching is making known the Mystery of God to the people.
Eph. 6:19 Paul calls preaching the making known of the mystery of the gospel, saying: "Praying. . . for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in bonds."
Col. 4:3 "Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds."

The gospel "is the power of God unto salvation

The mystery of God shall be finished

"In the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God shall be finished.
The last work of cleansing from sin was typified in the earthly sanctuary on the day of atonement.
So too, in the days (years) of the seventh trumpet, Christ enters the Most Holy phase of His ministry before the ark of the testament, in preparation of bringing home His redeemed.

This also is called the cleansing of, not the earthly, but the heavenly sanctuary. (see Heb. 9:23) As the cleansing of the earthly sanctuary was the last work for that year in behalf of that people back then, so the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary will be the last work forever in behalf of all people in the end of time.
The day of atonement was a of heart searching, being sure sins were forgiven and forsaken, so the three angel's are urging people to leave the entanglements and counterfeits of the world, and send them before hand to be dwelt with with the blood of the Lamb. .
When Christ finishes the work in the Most Holy and comes forth, the world shall have reached the end of probationary time. The great gospel work of cleansing people from sin will be finished. And the declaration is made -- those who have been cleansed and made just and holy, will remain forever, just and holy. But those who are in the filth of sin and unrighteousness, will remain filthy and unrighteousness. Rev. 22:11


The gospel "the mystery of God" will have been "finished as he has declared to his servants the prophets."

This cleansing in the heavenly sanctuary began in A.D. 1844. The fact it has been going on for some 180 years doesn't mean we need to look for other explanations, it means we are at the very END, the world is ripe for harvest, very soon it must soon close. We are still living in the great day of atonement. Now the message is more urgent than ever, the time when it is urgent to put away all transgressions, to be a partaker of matchless mystery of the gospel, looking to the intercession of Christ, wash our robes, and make them white in the blood of the Lamb.
The seventh angel has been sounding; soon the mystery of God will be finished, the work of the gospel will be closed,


Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #199000
08/17/25 07:59 AM
08/17/25 07:59 AM
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The seven trumpets in Revelation 8-11, show that God has intervened on behalf of His oppressed people and has judged those who harmed them throughout the whole Christian era. The purpose of the seven trumpets is to assure God?s people that Christ, our High Priest and Savior is involved and active continuously, and we can depend on Him to bring the whole covenant plan to it's ultimate fulfilment.

Read Revelation 8:3-4
Compare this with the ceremony of the earthly tabernacle where the priest ministered inside the temple and offered incense on the golden altar in the Holy Place daily continually. (Exodus 30:7-8)
Then, on the day of atonement the High Priest placed burning coals in the golden censor taking the smoking censor with Him into the Most Holy Place. (Lev. 16:12-13)

The incense represents the prayers of God's people (Rev. 5:8). Their prayers are heard and answered by God.
Then near the end of the Christian era, Christ fills the censor and enters the Most Holy Place (during the seventh trumpet when the ark of the covenant is "seen")

Points:
1. The seven trumpets are God's judgments in response to the prayers of His oppressed people throughout the entire Christian era.
2. The trumpets sound after the death, resurrection and ascension into heaven, of Jesus as the Lamb, and run parallel with the time Christ ministers in the heavenly sanctuary, both in the Holy Place by the golden altar and in the Most Holy Place, to fulfill all the provisions and promises and judgments of the covenant. The trumpets run consecutively throughout history until the Second Coming and final restoration.
3. The censor is thrown down at the end of Christ's ministry in the Most Holy,, when the last trumpet has sounded and the thunder, lightening and voices are heard (Rev. 8:5 and 11:27)



Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #199004
08/19/25 02:06 AM
08/19/25 02:06 AM
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The seven trumpets give us the reason we, as a church exist in the time we exist.

Revelation 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roars; and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

Revelation chapter 10 is located between the sixth and seventh trumpet.
The sixth trumpet has taken us to the end of time prophecies. The seventh trumpet belongs to "the time of the end". Spanning the time when the last work of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary takes place and mystery of salvation is being completed.

SEVEN THUNDERS
Endless speculation has occurred about what the seven thunders might be.
Ellen White connects them to the three angel's messages of Rev. 14..
Quote
John heard the mysteries which the thunders uttered, but he was commanded not to write
them. The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. In the order of God, most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed. The first and second angels' messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work.. {1MR 99.3}


Thunder
thunder seems connected with God's commandment law and judgment. The law demands death for the transgressor. It is only by being covered by the blood of the Lamb that anyone can escape the wages the law demands of transgressors.

In the Exodus Israel stood before the mountain of Sinai, where God Himself spoke His ten commandments. "Exodus 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that [was] in the camp trembled.
19:19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder
20:1 And God spake all these words, .....(in the ten commandments)
20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw and heard, they retreated, and stood afar off.


For them the thunderings and lightnings were very frightening. Why? " they realized as never before the offensive character of sin, and their own guilt in the sight of a holy God."

In 1844 Christ entered the Most Holy Place to begin His last sanctuary ministry there, and the ark of the testimony was seen. (Rev. 11:19)
"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament" (Revelation 11:19). Beneath the mercy seat, within the ark, were the two tables of stone, containing the law of Jehovah. God's faithful ones saw the light that shone forth to them from the law, to be given to the world."

The three angel's messages are all about God's law. The thunders are announcing to the world that God's law will be vindicated, the faithful followers of Jesus will be keeping God's law by faith and in the strength of One they are following.

--Rev. 12:17 Satan's fierce enmity against God's law and those who keep it.
--Rev. 14:9 Worship the one who created heaven and earth, the sea and fountains of water (Ex. 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it).
--Rev/ 14:17 Here is the endurance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.

The three angel's messages are to go to the world -- leave Babylon, who has trodden underfoot God's law, especially the fourth commandment. How terrible will be the thunder and lightnings when when God reveals His law from the heavens. The law they so despised they were ready to kill everyone who worshipped God on His blessed and hallowed day.

Quote
GC 638 Fierce lightnings leap from the heavens, enveloping the earth in a sheet of flame. Above the terrific roar of thunder, voices, mysterious and awful, declare the doom of the wicked. ... the clouds sweep back, and the starry heavens are seen, unspeakably glorious in contrast with the black and angry firmament on either side. The glory of the celestial city streams from the gates ajar. Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together. Says the prophet: "The heavens shall declare His righteousness: for God is judge Himself." Psalm 50:6. That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the rule of judgment. The hand opens the tables, and there are seen the precepts of the Decalogue


The seven thunders proclaim God's law,
They announce the great need of lifting from obscurity the laws binding nature, its power.
They point people to the only remedy to escape the penalty of disobedience (the forgiving and cleansing power of Christ's sacrifice) which includes transformation of character and keeping that law.
They announce the "wages" for transgressors.
They announce the coming judgment against the rejection of that law.
They announce the awful results of rejection of Christ's power to cleanse and transform according to HIS standard.


The 1844 movement was a "loud cry" - "The hour of His judgment has come!
Worship the way God desires worship. Worship Him as our Creator, remember also the memorial.
The beast has thought to change God's law. Counterfeit God's memorial of His creative power, and raise up images of worship. Don't follow the beast, don't be deceived.
Hold fast to truth.

A little group of believers from the Millerite movement prayerfully found the heavenly sanctuary message. They recognized the ark of the covenant within the Most Holy Place, with God's commandments foundational position.

God raised this church to give the three angel's messages to the world.
The last warning message to the world.


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