Peggy's comment in the Happy Sabbath thread in the Fellowship Forum made me think of the following questions:

1. How should we act in the church sanctuary?

2. How do we act in the church sanctuary?

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

As one who only has the view from the pulpit each Sabbath, I want to let everyone know that the preacher sees everything.

When there's whispering and laughing going on in the back, my eye is on it. There's no escaping my gaze. I somtimes wish they supplied lightning bolts that I could throw at some of the least respectful offenders.

Of course I'd rather have people there and noisy than away and having deafening silence. In churches I've been in the real noise crimes don't get committed in the Sanctuary, but in what drifts into the Sanctuary from people "hanging out" in the lobby or from neighbors cutting the grass (sometimes it's even public autions).

I actually like hearing the noise from pianos and lively children's Sabbath school divisions in the Sanctuary. It shows that the church is alive.

All of the above has actually been done in churches that I've attended.

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As the Happy Moments Roll,

Pastor Andrew

Since God sets the terms of worship He is honored by, the question is Whom do we honor by our attitudes and teachings and actions.

If we honor God we will follow the terms He has revealed that cover His plans for our attitude, His version of ideology & our understanding of that ideology, His plan for our actions .

Could it be that true worship according to what God has revealed, is not just to glorify Him but also to recreate us into His character and son-ship & daughter-ship. Could worship also be part of the transorming process that un-defiles our bodies and renews our mind after the image God has set for us ?

James 1:
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
1 ¶ My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 ¶ If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 ¶ What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Matthew 25:
31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

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Edward F. Sutton

I appreciate the questions Daryl has raised. The apostle Paul apparently had similar concerns, for he said to Timothy, "But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God. . . ." (1 Tim. 3:15, NKJV).

On the matter of reverence Sister White says, "It is too true that reverence for the house of God has become almost extinct." (Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 496). "There has been a great change, not for the better, but for the worse, in the habits and customs of the people in reference to religious worship. The precious, the sacred, things which connect us with God are fast losing their hold upon our minds and hearts, and are being brought down to the level of common things. The reverence which the people had anciently for the sanctuary where they met with God in sacred service has largely passed away. Nevertheless, God Himself gave the order of His service, exalting it high above everything of a temporal nature." (Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 491).

Dennis has posted some very serious quotes from both the Bible and the SOP.

If we have fallen so low in our reverence and worship of God in His sanctuary, then it makes even more sense this other passage in 1 Cor. 10:12 which says, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

I think we need to study this through solemnly and prayerfully.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

To true.
There is a scripture that comes to mind:
The LORD is in His sanctuary, let all the earth keep silent before Him.( can't remember where it is at the moment)
I got the feeling fromthe context of it that it had more to do with irreverant speech and behaviour than actual total silence.

All to often we stand around in the sanctuary talking and laughing, both before and after the service.
This ought not be, we have fellowship halls for this purpose.
I have also seen people talking and visiting during the service.

Not very reverant(sp?)Have we forgotten whom we are in the presence of during this time?

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What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.
Gerry B.

When The Spirit strides among us as He did after Pentecost, modern SDA's will some repeat this history for their disrespect & lack of reverence ?

1 ¶ But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

Does God still feel the same way about hypocritical worship today ? When I get to that point in Testimonies forum, under-Ed's story - I will write out what happened along those lines in Florida 1992. The Friday nite experience.

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Edward F. Sutton

quote:

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Originally posted by Dennis Crabbe:
I appreciate the questions Daryl has raised. The apostle Paul apparently had similar concerns, for he said to Timothy, "But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God. . . ." (1 Tim. 3:15, NKJV).

On the matter of reverence Sister White says, "It is too true that reverence for the house of God has become almost extinct." (Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 496). "There has been a great change, not for the better, but for the worse, in the habits and customs of the people in reference to religious worship. The precious, the sacred, things which connect us with God are fast losing their hold upon our minds and hearts, and are being brought down to the level of common things. The reverence which the people had anciently for the sanctuary where they met with God in sacred service has largely passed away. Nevertheless, God Himself gave the order of His service, exalting it high above everything of a temporal nature." (Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 491).

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Hello Dennis

What would you say constitutes a "lack of reverence," IN CONTEXT with the SOP quotes you supplied?

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"The joy of the Lord will be your strength." (Neh.8:10).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

Sorry for the delayed answer. I don't get a chance to visit here very often, so please forgive me for having taken so long to respond.

You asked what constitutes "a lack of reverence" in the context of the statement quoted from Sister White. In her statement she tells how a lack of reverence is shown. She says, "sacred things. . . are being brought down to the level of common things." If she could make a statement like that over a hundred years ago, what would she say about the church's condition today?

Are worship services more reverent or less reverent today than they were a hundred years ago? As we draw nearer the coming of our Lord, can the world see in our reverence that we really believe Christ is coming soon? Are we dressed more respectfully at church, are we behaving more reverently, does our music sound more heavenly than in the church of a hundred years ago? What do you think, and why? Anywone is invited to respond.

[This message has been edited by Dennis Crabbe (edited June 17, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Dennis Crabbe (edited June 19, 2001).]

Even now, services are less reverant than they were only 20 years ago.

We have become too 'familiar' with the message of His return.
Do we still believe it?
Is it as certain in our hearts as it was even 10 years ago?

There is a saying that 'familiarity breeds contempt', are we, perhaps, at that level?
Do we really understand where we are in the stream of time?
Do we really care?

My $0.02

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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8