Mike Lowe posted:

quote:

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Daryl, Paul lists himself as the chief of sinners, in the present tense, as you say. But according to the sanctuary message our sins remain in mind and on record until Jesus blots them out in the INJ. Thus in Paul's case he may very well be number one on the list of sinners recorded in heaven. He could refer to this fact in the present tense without also meaning to say that he is chief of sinners because of any sinning he is guilty of on an on-going basis. We might also add that simultaneously Paul is also the chief of saints (perhaps just under John Baptist) on another list kept in heaven.

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Then I guess you are saying that Paul is both a sinner and a saint, which would be true of all born again Christians?

A converted person is both a confessing sinner and a performing saint--the whole package. The parable of the pharisee and the publican demonstrates the confessing sinner part and the one of the foolish-wise virgins/talents (and several other parables in Matthew) show the "performing saint" part. Luke tends to emphasise the confessing sinner idea while Matthew's "sheep and the goats" is the only time that Jesus mentions the judgement and the criteria that He uses for it.

[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Andrew Marttinen ]

Daryl, for me I am more comfortable with the term "former sinner." I don't want to give the false impression the Bible teaches that Christians sin on a regular basis, and that that's normal.

Andrew, the idea of a confessing sinner leads me to believe sinning and repenting is normal or routine for born again believers. But I can't find anywhere in the Bible where this idea is taught. True, the Bible says it's that way for people before they are born again.

Ephesians
2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins:
2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
2:7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

But once we have been delivered from our former life of sin we are, by the indwelling Spirit of God, free from sin.

Ephesians
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1 Peter
1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Please, show me from the Bible where it says life in the Spirit and mind of the new man regularly involves sinning and repenting, and that this is normal and to be expected.

[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

quote:

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Asked by Mike Lowe:

Please, show me from the Bible where it says life in the Spirit and mind of the new man regularly involves sinning and repenting, and that this is normal and to be expected.

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Whole Bible is the answer, you find it from all-over the Bible.

It is not "normal" and also not "expected", but it is the truth. Do we stare at it or not.

Why Jesus taught to his disciples (to specially called/converted people) to pray in their everyday prayer:
"forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors." Matt.6:12

...

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"1.John 1:8
Isn't this text very clear in this topic?

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Paul called the transgressors (some transgressed directly and others indirectly as Aron at Mt.Sinai) in Corinth the saints.

"the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" 1.Cor.1:2

Please read from the Bible what these "saints" did there (in "the church of God ... at Corinth). Situation in Corinth was not "normal", do you agree?

Some more thoughts from EGW:

Daniel
When the prophet Daniel beheld the glory surrounding the heavenly messenger that was sent unto him, he was overwhelmed with a sense of his own weakness and imperfection. Describing the effect of the wonderful scene, he says, "There remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength." Daniel 10:8. The soul thus touched will hate its selfishness, abhor its self-love, and will seek, through Christ's righteousness, for the purity of heart that is in harmony with the law of God and the character of Christ. (SC 29)

Question: was Daniel a "saint"?

Paul
Paul says that as "touching the righteousness which is in the law"--as far as outward acts were concerned --he was "blameless" (Philippians 3:6); but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, he saw himself a sinner. Judged by the letter of the law as men apply it to the outward life, he had abstained from sin; but when he looked into the depths of its holy precepts, and saw himself as God saw him, he bowed in humiliation and confessed his guilt. He says, "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." Romans 7:9. When he saw the spiritual nature of the law, sin appeared in its true hideousness, and his self-esteem was gone. (SC 29)

Same question about Paul...

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"Jesus loves to have us come to Him just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent. We may come with all our weakness, our folly, our sinfulness, and fall at His feet in penitence. It is His glory to encircle us in the arms of His love and to bind up our wounds, to cleanse us from all impurity." (SC 52)

Brother Mike,
how do you come to Jesus: as a sinner or as a saint???

[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Aksel ]

Perhaps in the sake of scholarship, and accuracy & everyone on the same page. How does the Bible & SOP define - Saints - .

Bible Texts -(Saint*) 98 direct verses without context:

Deuteronomy 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

Deuteronomy 33:3 Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.

1 Samuel 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

2 Chronicles 6:41 Now therefore arise, O LORD God, into thy resting place, thou, and the ark of thy strength: let thy priests, O LORD God, be clothed with salvation, and let thy saints rejoice in goodness.

Job 5:1 Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?

Job 15:15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.

Psalms 16:3 But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.

Psalms 30:4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

Psalms 31:23 O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.

Psalms 34:9 O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

Psalms 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Psalms 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

Psalms 52:9 I will praise thee for ever, because thou hast done it: and I will wait on thy name; for it is good before thy saints.

Psalms 79:2 The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.

Psalms 85:8 I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

Psalms 89:5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.

Psalms 89:7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.

Psalms 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psalms 106:16 They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the LORD.

Psalms 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Psalms 132:9 Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.

Psalms 132:16 I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy.

Psalms 145:10 All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall bless thee.

Psalms 148:14 He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD.

Psalms 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.

Psalms 149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

Proverbs 2:8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Hosea 11:12 Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

Acts 9:32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

Acts 9:41 And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.

Acts 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

Romans 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.

Romans 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Romans 15:31 That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;

Romans 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Romans 16:15 Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1 Corinthians 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

2 Corinthians 8:4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.

2 Corinthians 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:

2 Corinthians 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

2 Corinthians 13:13 All the saints salute you.
Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Philippians 4:21 Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you.

Philippians 4:22 All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar’s household.

Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

2 Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

1 Timothy 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Philemon 1:5 Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;

Philemon 1:7 For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.

Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Hebrews 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Revelation 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

On the EGW CD ROM Disk (saint*) = 2581 hits

Anybody want to bite a chunk of that bit by bit.

"a saint is" = 1 hit. (just 2580 left)

" Now I want to tell you what a saint is. A saint in heaven is just what he is in his own family at home. If he is a Christian at home he is a Christian in the church. He will be a good Christian in heaven. Now, God has placed us on trial here. How is it with you? Are you going to stand the test? He will bring circumstances around you to prove you and see whether there is any defilement of character in you. If there is any debasement, if there is any carnality, if there is any satanic tendency, He will bring you over the ground in one way, and then He will bring you over the ground in another way, and then He will test you upon one point, and then He will test you upon another. We are here to be tested and proved." {1SAT 186

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"saint" -

Appendix A - At Simon's House

"And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat." Christ had no home that He called His own. Those who invited Him to their houses regarded Him as being too poor to possess a home. But every house was His property.{DG 236.1}

Simon thought that in making this feast he was doing Christ an honor. But, even though what he furnished had been his own, in partaking of his hospitality Christ would have given more than was bestowed on Him. As He sat at the Pharisee's table, He ate the provision furnished by His Father. Scribes and Pharisees were tenants in His home. His benevolence provided them with food and clothing. If He had not become man's surety, they would have enjoyed no blessings. And not only do temporal blessings come from Him, but to all who will receive it, He gives the bread of life.{DG 236.2}

Christ ate with publicans and sinners, as well as with Pharisees. When He was invited to their homes, He accepted the invitation. In this He offended the scribes and Pharisees, who thought that a Jew should not thus forget the wall of partition that tradition had erected. But with God there is no sect or nationality. When thus accused, Christ answered, "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." He placed Himself in the very avenue where He could gain access to perishing souls, and plant in human hearts the seeds of truth, seeds that would spring up and bear fruit to the glory of God.{DG 236.3}

Christ never provided a luxury for Himself, but He allowed expressions of respect and love to flow to Him. This was His due. He had nothing in the world which He claimed as His own, yet He made the world and all that is therein. For our sake He became poor, that we through His poverty might be made rich. He bore the weakness of humanity. Could human eyes have been opened, they would have seen that He was stronger than the strong man armed; but He never forgot that in the estimation of the world He was a poor man.{DG 237.1}

There was no sham humility about Him. He was humility itself. "Being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself." When anyone did Him a favor, with all courtesy and heavenly politeness He blessed the giver. He never refused the simplest flower plucked by the hand of a child and offered to Him in love. He accepted the offerings of children, and blessed the givers, inscribing their names in the book of life.{DG 237.2}

"And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, and stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner."{DG 237.3}

By curing Simon of leprosy, Christ had saved him from a living death. But now Simon questioned whether Christ was a prophet. Because Christ allowed this woman to approach Him, because He did not indignantly spurn her as one whose sins were too great to be forgiven, because He did not show that He realized that she had fallen, Simon was tempted to think that He was not a prophet. His heart was filled with mistrust and unbelief. Jesus knows nothing of this woman, who is so free in her demonstrations, he thought, or He would not allow her to touch Him.{DG 237.4}

But Simon could not read his Guest's heart. It was his ignorance of the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom He had sent, that led him to think as he did. He had not yet been fully converted from his Pharisaism. He did not realize that on such occasions God's Son must act in God's way--with compassion, tenderness, and mercy. Simon's way was to take no notice of Mary's penitent service, her humble action. Her act of kissing Christ's feet and anointing them with ointment was exasperating to Simon. He thought that if Christ were a prophet, He would recognize sinners and rebuke them.{DG 237.5}

Reading Simon's thoughts, Christ answered them before he had spoken, thus showing that He was a prophet of prophets. "Simon," He said, "I have somewhat to say unto thee. . . . There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou has rightly judged."{DG 238.1}

As did Nathan with David, Christ concealed His home thrust under the veil of a parable. He threw upon His host the burden of pronouncing sentence upon himself. This way of presenting the matter made Simon feel very uncomfortable. He himself had led into sin the woman he now despised. She had been deeply wronged by him. By the two debtors of the parable Simon and the woman are represented. Simon's sin is shown to be tenfold greater than that of the woman, as much greater as the debt of five hundred pence is greater than a debt of fifty pence.{DG 238.2}

Simon now began to see himself in a new light. He saw how Mary was regarded by One who was indeed a prophet in every sense of the word. He saw that with keen prophetic eye Christ read her heart of love and devotion. Simon was ashamed. He felt that he was in the presence of a being superior to himself.{DG 238.3}

Simon had doubted that Christ was a prophet, but in His very knowledge of this woman, Christ gave evidence of His prophetic character. His mighty works bore witness of Him. His miracles, His wonderful instruction, His long patience, His humility, all were evidences of His divinity. Simon need not have doubted.{DG 238.4}

"I entered into thine house," Christ continued, "thou gavest me no water for my feet: but [with tears of repentance, prompted by love] she hath washed my feet . . . and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman [whom you despise] since the time she entered in, hath not ceased to kiss my feet." The washing of the feet and the kiss of welcome were attentions that were not invariably shown to guests. It was customary to bestow them on those to whom it was desired to show special regard. These ministrations Christ should have received from His host, but He did not.{DG 238.5}

Christ recounted the opportunities Simon had had to show his love for his Lord, and his appreciation of what had been done for him. Plainly, yet with delicate politeness, Christ assured His disciples that His heart is grieved when His children neglect to express their gratitude to Him by words and deeds of love. Some may think that this scripture is no longer of force, but it is. Writing of those women who were to be honored, Paul said, "If she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work" [1 Timothy 5:10].{DG 239.1}

Many need sympathy and appreciation. But those who would wash the saints' feet must have sanctified discernment, that they may be able to recognize a saint. The garment of God's messenger may be travel-stained and worn, but he may be an angel in disguise. Unrecognized, angels talk with men, speaking words that are to their souls as the water of life. Mary was looked upon as a great sinner, but Christ knew the circumstances that had made her thus. He saw that she had great capabilities for good. He saw the better phase of her character, and knew that through His grace she would become a partaker of the divine nature, and would purify her soul by obeying the truth.{DG 239.2}

Christ might have extinguished every spark of hope in Mary's soul, but He did not. The Heart-searcher read the motives that led to her actions, and He also saw the spirit that prompted Simon's words."Seest thou this woman?" He said to him. "She is a sinner; I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven."{DG 239.3}

Those present, thinking of Lazarus, who had been raised from the dead by Christ, and who was at this time a guest in his uncle's house, began to question, saying, "Who is this that forgiveth sins also?" But Christ continued, "Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."{DG 239.4}

Jesus knows the circumstances of every soul. You may say, I am sinful, very sinful. You may be; but the worse you are, the more you need Jesus. He turns no weeping, contrite soul away. He does not tell to any all that He might reveal, but He bids every trembling soul take courage. He will not reject any who come to Him penitent and believing. Freely will He pardon all who come for forgiveness and restoration.{DG 240.1}

But to know Jesus requires a change of heart. No unconverted person, in his natural state of depravity, loves Christ. A love of Jesus is the first result of conversion. The proof of this love is given: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."{DG 240.2}

Christ might commission the angels of heaven to pour out the vials of wrath on our world, full of hypocrisy and sin, destroying those who are filled with hatred to God. He might blot this dark spot from His universe. But He does not do this. He is today standing at the altar of incense, presenting before God the prayers of those who desire His help. "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us."{DG 240.3}

Jesus is to be loved and trusted. All who will be obedient He leads upward step by step, as fast as they can advance, that, while standing by the side of the Sin-bearer, in the light that proceeds from the throne of God, they may breathe the air of the heavenly courts. Beside his great Intercessor, the repentant sinner stands above the strife and accusation of tongues. "Who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled."{DG 240.4}

No human being, even though united with evil angels, can impeach the souls who have fled to Christ for refuge. He has united the believing soul to His own divine-human nature. In His mediatorial office, His divinity and humanity are combined, and upon this union hangs the hope of the world.--ST, May 9, 1900. {DG 240.5}

[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Edward F Sutton ]

Ed,

I see you edited the above post, therefore, I had better edit mine.

That first quote defining a saint could be another topic in itself.

[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]

If one who is heedless and unappreciative of truth is associated with those who profess to be followers of Jesus Christ, he is to behave himself as a gentleman, remembering that it is inappropriate and unfair for him to jest and joke and make remarks that are calculated to divert the mind from pure and holy meditation. Thus one sinner can do much harm, even though he claims, and is thought, to be a saint. Profession is nothing. Faith without works is dead, being alone. {KC 97.3}

Well so far, definitions add facets of what a saint is.

1. A saint is converted.
2. A saint is performing the things they understand how to perform in following Jesus.
3. They live to the same standards at home and church and everywhere.
4. a saint depends upon Jesus and His merits, follows the Holy Spirit's leading, and demonstrates his or her gratitude.