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Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Rosangela] #90571
07/13/07 07:31 PM
07/13/07 07:31 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Rosangela, all knowledge comes from the Creator. Man has created nothing. We only map the reality we perceive. Thankfully, the Creator has given us a standard method for choosing between the options. It is called the scientific method. Our problem is that we think we should explain the Creator. Why do we need to do this. It is not possible to explain your Creator. Even there He anticipated our efforts. He made Himself available to us by making man "in His image." If you want to know what God is like take a look at the image of Himself that He provided to us. Why do we claim to follow the Binle yet disregard what it teaches? If you want to get to know God look to your left and look to your right. His image is all around you and that is why He forbade us to make graven images of Him. He has already provided the image of Himself.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Darius] #90573
07/13/07 09:54 PM
07/13/07 09:54 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Darius,

One book says that the dead know nothing and that "it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment"; the other book says there are innumerable reincarnations. What does the scientific method say about it?

About God's image in people around me, what I see is thieves, murderers, adulterers, liars, etc. Is this the kind of image of God you are referring to?

Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Rosangela] #90582
07/14/07 11:11 PM
07/14/07 11:11 PM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Quote:
(2 Tim. 3:16). Inspiration of the Bible Writers.--God committed the preparation of His divinely inspired Word to finite man. This Word arranged into books, the Old and New Testaments, is the guidebook to the inhabitants of a fallen world; bequeathed to them, that by studying and obeying the directions, not one soul would lose its way to heaven. {7BC 944.8}

Those who think to make the supposed difficulties of Scripture plain, in measuring by their finite rule that which is inspired and that which is not inspired, had better cover their faces, as Elijah when the still small voice spoke to him; for they are in the presence of God and holy angels, who for ages have communicated to men light and knowledge, telling them what to do, and what not to do, unfolding before them scenes of thrilling interest, waymark by waymark in symbols and signs and illustrations. {7BC 944.9}

And He has not, while presenting the perils clustering about the last days, qualified any finite man to unravel hidden mysteries, or inspired one man or any class of men to pronounce judgment as to that which is inspired or is not. When men, in their finite judgment, find it necessary to go into an examination of Scriptures to define that which is inspired and that which is not, they have stepped before Jesus to show Him a better way than He has led us. {7BC 944.10}

I take the Bible just as it is, as the
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Inspired Word. I believe its utterances in an entire Bible. . . . {7BC 944.11}

Simplicity and plain utterance are comprehended by the illiterate, by the peasant, and the child as well as by the full-grown man or the giant in intellect. If the individual is possessed of large talents of mental powers, he will find in the Oracles of God treasures of truth, beautiful and valuable, which he can appropriate. He will also find difficulties, and secrets and wonders which will give him the highest satisfaction to study during a long lifetime, and yet there is an infinity beyond. {7BC 945.1}

Men of humble acquirements, possessing but limited capabilities and opportunities to become conversant in the Scriptures, find in the Living Oracles comfort, guidance, counsel, and the plan of salvation as clear as a sunbeam. No one need be lost for want of knowledge unless he is willfully blind. {7BC 945.2}

We thank God that the Bible is prepared for the poor man as well as for the learned man. It is fitted for all ages and all classes (MS 16, 1888). {7BC 945.3}

The writers of the Bible had to express their ideas in human language. It was written by human men. These men were inspired of the Holy Spirit. Because of the imperfections of human understanding of language, or the perversity of the human mind, ingenious in evading truth, many read and understand the Bible to please themselves. It is not that the difficulty is in the Bible. Opposing politicians argue points of law in the statute book, and take opposite views in their application and in these laws. {7BC 945.4}

The Scriptures were given to men, not in a continuous chain of unbroken utterances, but piece by piece through successive generations, as God in His providence saw a fitting opportunity to impress man at sundry times and divers places. Men wrote as they were moved upon by the Holy Ghost. There is "first the bud, then the blossom, and next the fruit," "first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear." This is exactly what the Bible utterances are to us. {7BC 945.5}

There is not always perfect order or apparent unity in the Scriptures. The miracles of Christ are not given in exact order, but are given just as the circumstances occurred, which called for this divine revealing of the power of Christ. The truths of the Bible are as pearls hidden. They must be searched, dug out by painstaking effort. Those who take only a surface view of the Scriptures, will, with their superficial knowledge, which they think is very deep, talk of the contradictions of the Bible, and question the authority of the Scriptures. But those whose hearts are in harmony with truth and duty will search the Scriptures with a heart prepared to receive divine impressions. The illuminated soul sees a spiritual unity, one grand golden thread running through the whole, but it requires patience, thought, and prayer to trace out the precious golden thread. Sharp contentions over the Bible have led to investigation and revealed the precious jewels of truth. Many tears have been shed, many prayers offered, that the Lord would open the understanding to His Word. {7BC 945.6}

The Bible is not given to us in grand superhuman language. Jesus, in order to reach man where he is, took humanity. The Bible must be given in the language of men. Everything that is human is imperfect. Different meanings are expressed by the same word; there is not one word for each distinct idea. The Bible was given for practical purposes. {7BC 945.7}

The stamps of minds are different. All do not understand expressions and statements alike. Some understand the statements of the Scriptures to suit their own particular minds and cases. Prepossessions, prejudices, and passions have a strong influence to darken the understanding and confuse the mind even in reading the words of Holy Writ. . . . {7BC 945.8}

The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen. Look at the different writers. {7BC 945.9}

It is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. Inspiration acts not on the man's words or
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his expressions but on the man himself, who, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. But the words receive the impress of the individual mind. The divine mind is diffused. The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the Word of God (MS 24, 1886). {7BC 945.10}

Finite Vehicles of Thought.--The Lord speaks to human beings in imperfect speech, in order that the degenerate senses, the dull, earthly perception, of earthly beings may comprehend His words. Thus is shown God's condescension. He meets fallen human beings where they are. The Bible, perfect as it is in its simplicity, does not answer to the great ideas of God; for infinite ideas cannot be perfectly embodied in finite vehicles of thought. Instead of the expressions of the Bible being exaggerated, as many people suppose, the strong expressions break down before the magnificence of the thought, though the penman selected the most expressive language through which to convey the truths of higher education. Sinful beings can only bear to look upon a shadow of the brightness of heaven's glory (Letter 121, 1901). {7BC 946.1}

Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: crater] #90585
07/15/07 01:28 PM
07/15/07 01:28 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Rosangela, you remind me of the Pharisee who objected to Mary pouring perfume on Jesus' feet. All he saw was her reputation. He did not see the woman. Jesus had to tell him, "Simon, do you see the woman?" How can we have so much confidence in the Bible and miss the lessons it teaches? Don't judge people by what they think they are; judge them by what God thinks of them. He calls them all His children.

I don't get your question about the scientific method.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: crater] #90586
07/15/07 02:28 PM
07/15/07 02:28 PM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Quote:
God has permitted a flood of light to be poured upon the world in both science and art; but when professedly scientific men treat upon these subjects from a merely human point of view, they will assuredly come to wrong conclusions. It may be innocent to speculate beyond what God's word has revealed, if our theories do not contradict facts found in the Scriptures; but those who leave the word of God, and seek to account for His created works upon scientific principles, are drifting without chart or compass upon an unknown ocean. The greatest minds, if not guided by the word of God in their research, become bewildered in their attempts to trace the relations of science and revelation. Because the Creator and His works are so far beyond their comprehension that they are unable to explain them by natural laws, they regard Bible history as unreliable. Those who doubt the reliability of the records of the Old and New Testaments, will be led to go a step further, and doubt the existence of God; and then, having lost their anchor, they are left to beat about upon the rocks of infidelity.
114
{PP 113.4} These persons have lost the simplicity of faith. There should be a settled belief in the divine authority of God's Holy Word. The Bible is not to be tested by men's ideas of science. Human knowledge is an unreliable guide. Skeptics who read the Bible for the sake of caviling, may, through an imperfect comprehension of either science or revelation, claim to find contradictions between them; but rightly understood, they are in perfect harmony. Moses wrote under the guidance of the Spirit of God, and a correct theory of geology will never claim discoveries that cannot be reconciled with his statements. All truth, whether in nature or in revelation, is consistent with itself in all its manifestations. {PP 114.1}

In the word of God many queries are raised that the most profound scholars can never answer. Attention is called to these subjects to show us how much there is, even among the common things of everyday life, that finite minds, with all their boasted wisdom, can never fully understand. {PP 114.2}

Yet men of science think that they can comprehend the wisdom of God, that which He has done or can do. The idea largely prevails that He is restricted by His own laws. Men either deny or ignore His existence, or think to explain everything, even the operation of His Spirit upon the human heart; and they no longer reverence His name or fear His power. They do not believe in the supernatural, not understanding God's laws or His infinite power to work His will through them. As commonly used, the term "laws of nature" comprises what men have been able to discover with regard to the laws that govern the physical world; but how limited is their knowledge, and how vast the field in which the Creator can work in harmony with His own laws and yet wholly beyond the comprehension of finite beings! {PP 114.3}

Many teach that matter possesses vital power--that certain properties are imparted to matter, and it is then left to act through its own inherent energy; and that the operations of nature are conducted in harmony with fixed laws, with which God Himself cannot interfere. This is false science, and is not sustained by the word of God. Nature is the servant of her Creator. God does not annul His laws or work contrary to them, but He is continually using them as His instruments. Nature testifies of an intelligence, a presence, an active energy, that works in and through her laws. There is in nature the continual working of the Father and the Son. Christ says, "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." John 5:17.
115
{PP 114.4}. . . . .God is the foundation of everything. All true science is in harmony with His works; all true education leads to obedience to His government. Science opens new wonders to our view; she soars high, and explores new depths; but she brings nothing from her research that conflicts with divine revelation. Ignorance may seek to support false views of God by appeals to science, but the book of nature and the written word shed light upon each other.
116
We are thus led to adore the Creator and to have an intelligent trust in His word. {PP 115.2}

No finite mind can fully comprehend the existence, the power, the wisdom, or the works of the Infinite One. Says the sacred writer: "Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea." Job 11:7-9. The mightiest intellects of earth cannot comprehend God. Men may be ever searching, ever learning, and still there is an infinity beyond. {PP 116.1}

Yet the works of creation testify of God's power and greatness. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork." Psalm 19:1. Those who take the written word as their counselor will find in science an aid to understand God. "The invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead." Romans 1:20. {PP 116.2}

Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: crater] #90589
07/15/07 04:13 PM
07/15/07 04:13 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
I would say that what crater quoted is the scientific method.

By the way, Rosangela will most likely not have Internet access over the next ten days, therefore, if you don't hear from her until then, you will know why.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Daryl] #90598
07/16/07 12:49 AM
07/16/07 12:49 AM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
This discussion has arisen above my level of intelligence so I'll bow out now.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Darius] #90600
07/16/07 12:57 PM
07/16/07 12:57 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Then you are saying that you don't have an intelligent answer to the quote crater provided?

What else does EGW have to say about the Bible in her own inspired writings?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Daryl] #90602
07/16/07 01:30 PM
07/16/07 01:30 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
That's exactly what I am saying.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Darius] #90604
07/16/07 01:43 PM
07/16/07 01:43 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Darius,

In that case, I personally thank you for your admission, and your willingness to admit to such a thing. \:\)

The EGW quote that crater posted here testifies to the fact that God is indeed the real author of the Bible.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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