I came across a web site after listening to the person on 3ABN who was responsible for that web site.

The information contained in that web site provides scientific evidence for an instantaneous creation rather than a slow millions of years of accidental evolving of the planet earth and subsequent life on that planet.

Here is the main link to that web site:

http://www.halos.com

The two videos at

http://www.halos.com/videos/streaming-video.htm

are simply outstanding.

I haven't seen the videos yet, however, I did spend a great deal of time reading some of the scientific evidence on this site that scientifically proves an instantaneousness creation rather than a slow evolutionary process of millions of years or more that the evolutionists claimed evolved from a big bang.

I am beginning to wonder if anyone carefully read the Genesis account of creation. Do you really believe it is possible for water to be in existence BEFORE the first day of creation began?

Been looking at this site again after watching something on Amazing Discoveries TV by Dr. Robert Gentry and his son.

The videos on the following link came to my attention:

http://www.halos.com/videos/streaming-video.htm#ut

Especially this one, where somebody tried to refute him:

http://www.halos.com/videos/ut-1987-320x240-273k.htm

You can see the whole presentation here:

http://www.halos.com/videos/ut-1987-full-320x240-273k.htm

I watched the whole thing. It was worth it. It goes hand in hand with the Sabbath school lessons for the first two weeks of this year.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Regarding Robert Gentry's claims of an instantaneous creation, I think I can agree 100% with his evidence for that. However, perhaps he has yet to answer why said creation should be limited to having occurred six millennia ago. The fact is, once the polonium had made its halos in the rock, there is nothing further to tell us how long ago that event occurred. The rock cannot inform us definitively as to the passage of time since the event of its creation. All the halos do is to substantiate the Bible in that "He commanded and it stood fast." It was an instant creation. But we know not when it occurred.

The Genesis account clearly speaks of the water and the land mass as having pre-existed Creation Week when all life on earth was created and when the earth itself was given form. The land was covered in water up to that time, and by the Word was transformed into dry land which God then named "Earth." But there is no indication in the Biblical record for how long the water and the wet land existed prior to the beginning of that special week in which they were given meaning.

Did God create both the land and the water? Certainly. But they were already there when He chose to develop them further in what would place life in them--the six days of Creation Week.

For this reason, I have no clear argument against the earth being millions of years old. However, any fossils or sedimentary layers containing fossils (cretacious rock) would necessarily be no more than six thousand years old. Where Dr. Gentry is finding his radiohalos, in granite, is rock that we have no way of dating presently, to the best of my knowledge. Dr. Gentry may choose to believe that the evidence points toward the elements themselves being no more than 6000 years old, yet the Bible does not limit us to merely this option. In fact, the implication is there that the elements existed long before Creation Week.

"In the beginning..." seems to place the creation of Heaven and Earth at the same time. There are several ways of interpreting this. Some believe that God's own heavenly home was created at that time and that all stars and planets were created together just six thousand years ago. But that the celestial Heaven pre-existed Creation Week is evident in the story of the rebellion and war there which occurred prior to our Creation Week.

Consider the following statements by Mrs. White.



The controversy started in heaven first, and later came to earth.



This passage indicates that the rebellion in Heaven took time. It took time for the seeds of doubt, pride and jealousy to take root in Lucifer's mind. It took time for his rebellion to mature. God bore long with him. If this has any comparison to how long God has borne with us, it may have been much longer than many suppose. But more than any of this, these passages imply an existence in Heaven that predates sin--an existence that may have lasted for ages before sin ever entered. Heaven existed before our Creation Week. How else could we be the "crowning act?" The final, and best of God's creations could only have come after other creations were already made. The universe, therefore, cannot be dated the same as our own period of existence as human beings.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

God was not indebted to pre-existing matter.
_________________

Today's Sabbath School lesson tells me that creation must be viewed and accepted by faith. Why do we then need any scientific evidence? Then faith is not needed.

Seems to me that God also gives us something tangible to hang our faith onto, does He not?

Prior to the Flood, they had the Garden of Eden and the angel guarding access to the Tree of Life. I would call this tangible evidence for them back then.

Hebrews 11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Until the 20th Century it was completely by faith, but tangible scientific evidence has since been found, which is important in the teaching of creation in light of all the false scientific teaching of evolution out there in the schools and universities.

You are making a challenging statement, Daryl. If the 20th Century has changed the basis of our faith, how does that effect our relationship with our Creator?

Is it any easier winning souls for Christ in the Western World now than before, since we have more "tangible evidence" than Scripture?

Should a minister today have more education in science than in the Bible in order to do the required work in relationship with people?

Pistis - - Faith, Trust, Belief. When we have more evidence, does that mean we have less faith? On the contrary. We have more faith!!! Without evidence, we can have no faith, no trust, no belief.

God never asks us to believe, without giving sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith. His existence, His character, the truthfulness of His word, are all established by testimony that appeals to our reason; and this testimony is abundant. Yet God has never removed the possibility of doubt. Our faith must rest upon evidence, not demonstration. Those who wish to doubt will have opportunity; while those who really desire to know the truth will find plenty of evidence on which to rest their faith. {SC 105.2}


- Original: πίστις
- Transliteration: Pistis
- Phonetic: pis'-tis


- Strong's: From [url=tw://[self]?G3982]G3982[/url]; persuasion that is credence; moral conviction (of religious truth or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher) especially reliance upon christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance belief believe faith fidelity.

Faith
[Heb. 'emu ̂n; 'emûnah; Gr. pistis.]

1. A confidence of heart and mind in God and His ways that leads one to act in accordance with His sovereign will (2 Corinthians 5:7; Hebrews 11:8). This faith is not based upon a blind, unintelligent acquiescence, but upon a supreme trust in the ability and integrity of God (Deuteronomy 7:9; 1 Kings 8:56; 1 Corinthians 1:9; Hebrews 10:23; 2 Timothy 1:12; etc.). Such a faith is a prerequisite for any approach to Deity (Hebrews 11:6). It is by means of faith in Christ that one is justified (Romans 3:28; Romans 5:1; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:8; Galatians 3:25; etc.). Christ's righteousness becomes ours through faith in Him (Philippians 3:9). The believer's faith in God enables the Lord to do miraculous things for him and through him (Matthew 9:21-22; James 5:14-15; etc.). True faith cannot be passive, but manifests itself in works of righteousness (Galatians 5:6; James 2:17-18; James 2:20-21; James 2:26; etc.). Paul emphatically denied that faith abolished the law (Romans 3:31) or one's obligations to the law (Romans 6:1); rather it placed one in a position where, through Christ, the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in him (Romans 8:1-4).

2. That which is believed; the system of Christian doctrines. Because of the power and conviction that accompanied the preaching of the gospel by the apostles “a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith” (Acts 6:7). The sorcerer Elymas endeavored to prejudice Sergius Paulus, the deputy of Cyprus, against “the faith” (Acts 13:6-7). Paul exhorted his converts “to continue in the faith” (Acts 14:22). See also Philippians 1:27; James 2:1; Jude 1:3.

3. Faithfulness, fidelity. This is the meaning particularly of the Heb. ́emûnah, rendered “faith” in Habakkuk 2:4. Where Paul quotes this text in Romans 1:17 he may be giving to faith the more extended meaning of NT faith. Pistis does, however, have the meaning “faithfulness” in Romans 3:3; Titus 2:10; Galatians 5:22 and doubtless in other texts to a greater or lesser degree.

I didn't say anything about the basis of our faith being changed from the Bible to Science, however, I think it is a plus when what the Bible says can be proven by Science, as is now in the case of Dr. Robert Gentry at http://www.halos.com

Yes. Yes, most definitely.

True. But does that require God does not nor cannot use pre-existing matter? But more relevantly, does this say anything about whether He did or did not use pre-existing matter at creation?

No, of course not. Facts and evidence does not change one's mind. Many evolutionists can look right at contradictory evidence and not bat an eye. Same goes through those looking at the Bible or Ellen White's comments which contradict their opinion.

One minor disagreement here. While the "layers" would necessarily be of young age, one way they could measure the layers is that of which they are made up of. The broken up fragments could indicate a long age. Imagine a radiohalo within a fragment in the sedimentary layers. Or the age of the soil, sand, etc.

You showed God's definition of Earth. What is His definition of Heaven?

Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Evidence of Creation through the granite rocks substantiates the Bible.

Evidence of the Flood also substantiates the Bible.

Prophecy fulfilled also substantiates the Bible.

Archaeology (spelled correctly?) also substantiates the Bible.

Did you ever see the presentation titled, "Dead Men Do Tell Tales"?

Around 1970 every evangelist worth his salt was using archeology as his entering wedge. A multitude of them used that title, "Dead Men Do Tell Tales."

Back then world wide seminars were held for pastors on archeology. There was a feeling we could evangelize the whole world by using archeology.

From my experience and memory these types of public evangelism have prevailed:

1950 War and Peace, Hitler and Daniel 2
1960 Space travel, scientific discoveries
1970 Archeology
1980 Psychology and health
1990 Mark Finlay
2000 Television with public evangelism moving away from the Western world to Africa, South America, and Asia (India?)- Folkenberg vs. Mark Finlay
2010 Family?

Do you have other suggestions?

Somewhere in there is the evidence provided by Dr. Robert Gentry.

I am glad we have the writings of Robert Gentry. But were they ever used universally as the main thrust in evangelism? Perhaps on a local level?

You can read them for yourself by going to http://www.halos.com where you can also watch some video presentations by both him and his son.

I personally appreciate Dr. Gentry very much. However, it must be said that his thesis is rejected by many conservative SDAs with doctoral degrees in that area of study.

As such, it should not be used in evangelism.

Here's is another good one.. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIs7q1bNOeAEd6tsPQBc6Cw

Jesus created our planet and covered it with water a long time ago. Then 6,000 years ago He speech-created these elements into plants, creatures, and humans. He also made the sun, moon, and stars during Creation Week.

The existence of planets, creatures, and humans does not prove the existence of the Godhead. Nor does it prove the Godhead does not exist. Faith is our foundation - not science. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." Hebrews 11:1-3.