The Ellen G. White Estate paper, The Ark of the Covenant, Will It Be Found ? (See http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/ark.html#The%20Law%Kept. I have only in the last three days discovered the interesting MSDAOL website. On 19 July 2006 I sent the email as below to the Ellen G. White Estate. I will introduce it with their gracious response, written 20 July 2006 by Elder William Fagal, Associate Director of the Ellen G. White Estate.

WHITE ESTATE EMAIL OF 20 JULY 2006

Thank you for the thoughtful analysis and suggestions you have made. Our staff will review the document in light of your observations. With various ones out of the office for a while, it may not be something we can accomplish immediately, but we will take the matter seriously and consider whether a revision is in order.

Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this. It will help us to examine the matter with a more sensitive eye. We are always open to improving the documents we have. Thank you again, and God bless!


MY EMAIL OF 19 JULY 2006

… I have been studying the six page White Estate document, “The Ark of the Covenant, Will It Be Found?” (…updated by the Ellen G. White Estate in 1989; web page http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/Ark.html). I find the document a helpful compilation of quotes, and have shared it with several others. But as I have further reflected upon its construction I have discovered some surprises. I know I do not possess all knowledge, but could I make a couple of points as I understand matters.

1. IMPORTANT WORDS LEFT OUT OF AT LEAST TWO QUOTES. Under the sub-heading, “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, the White Estate paper lists eleven quotes, said to be “all the known E.G. White statements on this matter”, i.e. the bringing forth of the tables of stone containing the Ten Commandments on the great judgment day, for all to see. Placing at the commencement of the 3rd and 8th quotes—as Ellen White does—a text which makes clear reference to the earthly Ark of the Covenant, can make a significant difference to the interpretation of these quotes, and even to the final conclusions of the White Estate paper, can it not? Given the overall title and subject of the paper, I believe the omission of these words—as in your 3rd and 8th quotes at least—has to be a mistake. I quote the two paragraphs concerned, for your convenience. The words in bold print and square brackets are left out of the White Estate paper.

THIRD QUOTE, p. 4. “[And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.” (Ex 31:18) Nothing written on those tables could be blotted out.] The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, safely hidden from the human family. But in God’s appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath.” Manuscript 122, 1901 ( SDA Bible Commentary , Vol. 1, p. 1109).

EIGHTH QUOTE, p.4. “[And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.” (Ex 31:18)] There are abundant evidences of the immutability of God’s law. It was written with the finger of God, never to be obliterated, never to be destroyed. The tables of stone are hidden by God, to be produced in the great judgment-day, just as He wrote them.” Review and Herald , March 26, 1908 ( SDA Bible Commentary , Vol. 1, p. 1109) [The words in bold print in Quote 8 are also left out of this passages as quoted in the SDA Bible Commentary .]

2. FULFILLMENTS WRITTEN MORE DECIDEDLY IN THE PAST OR PRESENT TENSE AND INVOLVING A TESTIMONY ON EARTH , ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE LIST CLAIMING TO BE “ALL THE KNOWN E.G. WHITE STATEMENTS ON THIS MATTER”. To introduce the important section entitled, “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, the White Estate document says:

“ According to the Spirit of Prophecy, the time is coming [we note the FUTURE tense] when the tables of stone on which the Ten Commandments are written will be brought forth [FUTURE tense again] to the view of the inhabitants of earth. All of the known E.G. White statements on this matter are quoted here in chronological order.” White Estate document, p. 3. Emphasis supplied.

As I read what I see as “all the known statements on this matter” on the viewing of the two tables of God’s law, among other things I cannot escape three conclusions:-

1. Ellen White hangs these fulfillments upon Daniel 7:10 (“the judgments was set and the books were opened ”) and Revelation 11:19 (“the temple in heaven was opened …”).

2. The fulfillment of these texts (along with the significant announcement in Rev 10:2 that the little book of Daniel is “ open ”) is a major emphasis of Ellen White’s visions and writings, and the White Estate sub title, “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, is well chosen.

3. Ellen White, in different contexts (as shown below), and in relation to the issue addressed in the document in question, associates Dan 7:10 and Rev 11:19 with fulfillments:
(a) in 1844 and during the investigative judgment occurring 1844 to the close of probation.
(b) which are rewards and punishments future to the close of probation, happening as a result of the decisions made during investigative judgment.
(c) partial fulfillments in the past .

The last and concluding section of the White Estate paper is named, “Two Descriptions of Future Exhibitions.” Those two future fulfillments of prophecies concerning the bringing forth of the tables of the law, are described as the predicted display in the skies, after the close of probation, at the beginning of the seventh plague (GC 639); the other the predicted display in Jesus’ hands after the millennium (GC 668, 669). The eleven quotes under the sub-heading, “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, said to be “all the known statements on this matter”, prepare the mind to receive the conclusion that these two more generally accepted future fulfillments coming after the close of probation, and involving the heavenly tables of the law, are the ONLY events to which Ellen White’s prophecy in question ever make reference.

Ellen White quotes which support past and present fulfillments—as in points 3(a) and 3(c) above, are actually listed in the White Estate document itself, but under other sub-headings. Changing their placement under sub-headings affects the conclusions of this whole subject.

As I see it, in a sub-heading called “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, for the White Estate to proclaim that these are “ALL the known E.G. White statements on the matter”, while listing ONLY the two fulfillments coming after the close of probation, is to symbolically deny: the doctrine of the investigative judgment, the basic message Ellen White was called to preach, and the reason for the existence of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. This is not a nothing issue.

I am a firm believer that prophecies such as Daniel 2, the 70 weeks and 2300 days admit to no dual or multiple fulfillments. But obviously, sometimes Inspiration itself gives dual or multiple fulfillments [to a prophecy], with the completeness of the fulfillment not coming until the last of the stages of fulfillment. Here are other Ellen White quotes, most of them given in the White Estate document itself, but not listed, I believe, where they decidedly belong, i.e. right along with the other eleven quotes under the sub-heading, “When the Judgment Shall Sit.”

a. A Fulfillment In Heaven Nearly 2000 Years Ago, and On Earth In the Experience of John the Revelator. “Here the prophet [John] was permitted to behold the first apartment of the sanctuary in heaven, and he saw there the ‘seven lamps of fire’ [Rev 4:5] and ‘the golden altar,’ represented by the golden candlestick and the altar of incense [Rev 8:2-5] in the sanctuary on earth. Again , ‘the temple of God was opened’ [Rev 11:19 ], and he looked within the inner veil, upon the holy of holies. Here he beheld ‘the ark of His testament,’ represented by the sacred chest constructed by Moses to contain the law of God.” GC 414, 415.

b. A Fulfillment In Heaven In 1844, and On Earth In the Experience of Ellen White. “But the Lord gave me a view of the heavenly sanctuary. The temple of God was opened in heaven [Rev 11:19 ], and I was shown the ark of God…. Jesus raised the cover of the ark, and I beheld the tables of stone on which the ten commandments were written.” 1T 76. (Also listed: EW 251, 252; 255; LS 95; 4SP 261; GC 415; 433, 434)

“After viewing the glory of the holy, Jesus raised the second veil and I passed into the holy of holies.

“In the holiest I saw an ark: …Above the ark, where the angels stood, was an exceeding bright glory, that appeared like a throne where God dwelt. Jesus stood by the ark, … In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the ten commandments written on them with the finger of God. … But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; … The holy Sabbath looked glorious—a halo of glory was all around it.” Early Writings , pp. 32, 33.

c. A Fulfillment In 1844 and Onwards, In the Experience of Believers, As They Followed Christ By Faith Into the Most Holy Place In Heaven. “… the judgment was set, and the books [books of record in heaven] were opened.” Dan 7:10

“Then he was carried down to the period of time when a view of the heavenly sanctuary should be given to God's people, when the veil would be parted, and by faith they would enter within the holy of holies . Moses knew something about the sanctuary in heaven; he understood the sacred ministrations connected with the holy place and the Most Holy. The significance of the typical service in the earthly sanctuary was made light and clear by the reflection of the Sun of Righteousness upon the types and symbols.” Manuscript Releases , Vol 10, p. 157. (Also: EW 255; 4SP 273, 274; SR 379, 380)

“Those who rejected the first message could not be benefited by the second; neither were they benefited by the midnight cry, which was to prepare them to enter with Jesus by faith into the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary . And by rejecting the two former messages, they have darkened their understanding that they can see no light in the third angel’s message, which shows the way into the most holy place. I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages, and therefore they have no knowledge of the way into the most holy , and they cannot be benefited by the intercession of Jesus there.”

d. A Partial Fulfillment In the “Orion” Vision. Even this significant “opening” could be listed here. “Dark, heavy clouds came up and clashed against each other. The atmosphere parted and rolled back [Rev 6:14]; then we could look up through the open space in Orion, whence came the voice of God. The Holy City will come down through that open space.” Early Writings , p. 41. The happening is future. But Ellen White was given the prophecy during the antitypical Day of Atonement with all its other “openings.” Increase of knowledge (Dan 12:4) during this same time period has brought powerful telescopes which literally enabled men to view the opening in Orion. Scientists such as Dr Robert Gentry speak powerfully to the “centre of the universe” discovery, showing the lie in the “Big Bang” theory of evolution, and telling of the polonium halos, the Creator’s precious signature in the rocks, the building blocks of this earth.

e. Possibly Other Providences.

3. PROPHECIES CONCERNING THE BRINGING FORTH OF THE EARTHLY TABLES OF LAW ARE OVERLOOKED.
“Nowhere is it said that the tables of the law will be brought forth by men as a result of finding them hidden in a cave [where, of course, the Ark of the Covenant was hidden before the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar. PK 453].” White Estate Document , p. 5.

The above White Estate statement I think is true enough. But without qualifying words it is misleading.

Symbols, metaphors, similes, parables and allegories also “speak”, and the Master Teacher instructs by means of them, not hesitating to give updates when necessary. Offended Scribes and Pharisees once argued thoughts such as: “Nowhere does the Old Testament prophesy that the Messiah would die as a result of being nailed to a cross, a Roman symbol of sun worship.” But by humbly piecing together all the details of the Old Testament prophecies, we can know this apparently truthful statement conveys a very false and misleading message.

There are also typical and symbolic ways of saying, “bringing forth from a cave.” Adventist thought leaders have often noted that the prophetic allegory of Revelation 12, as introduced in the previous verse by a view of an “opened” temple and “opened” Ark of the Testament in heaven—and so a bringing to view of the “opened” tables containing the Ten Commandments—is clearly an outworking and bringing to climax of the great prophecy of Genesis 3:15 and associated happenings at the beginning. There is a woman, her “seed”, a serpent or dragon, his seed, a war or “enmity between”, a promise of salvation for the woman and her seed (and therefore a prophecy that God will make an atonement for sin), and a prophecy of destruction for the dragon and his seed.

As I read and compare the following sampling of richly symbolic biblical expressions [largely built around a study of Revelation 11:19-12:17], as I see it they readily allow for a literal bringing forth of the earthly tables of the law, just before the close of probation, and Ellen White’s writings do not testify differently and should not be made to appear as though they do.

· “the voice of thy brother’s [Abel’s] blood crieth unto me from the ground … the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s [Jesus is here typified, but not completely] blood from thy hand” Gen 4:9-11;
· “the earth helped the woman” and “the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth” (Rev 12:15, 16. Is this not a prophecy also with several fulfillments, [Revelation 12 centers around Jesus’ incarnation, death and resurrection], culminating at the time of Satan’s endtime attempt to reign as king of this world? There seems to be a play on the thought that rivers of living water flow from God’s throne, as symbolized by the split and once-struck rock in the wilderness. When Satan seeks to rule as king of the one world order, the “water” flowing from him—his big mouth—seeks to bring death to the woman and her seed. Many at this time are led by angels to find shelter in caves of the earth, as in the 1260 wilderness years, and as later America became a haven of refuge to the persecuted of Europe. Then “the earth will open its mouth” and the saints will be “brought forth” at the voice of God just prior to the second coming. Will […] the tables of the law under the blood-stained mercy seat […] be brought forth from a cave for the world to view, when Sunday laws are enforced? It will certainly be somehow BECAUSE there is a blood-stained mercy seat over the tables containing the Ten Commandments. The Ark of the Testament is alluded to again in Rev 12:17);
· “rent curtain” – “rent rocks” (Matt 27:50-53; Ex 17:6; 1 Cor 10:4; etc);
· “the earth speaks”, “the earth cries out”, “the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel (Heb 11:4; 12:24);
· “the earth—the spirit, the water, and the blood—bears witness” (1 John 5:8; John 19:34).

With regard to the White Estate paper, “The Ark of the Covenant, Will It Be Found?” I have meant to share constructive comment and not to sound critical and unappreciative. We know we will all be learning and growing in knowledge through the ages of eternity, and there is not one of us, high or low, who has not needed and will not need to change a belief at some stage or other.

We see her under such attack, but no doubt if they crucified Jesus, Satan and his agents will be in a frenzy to destroy Jesus’ prophets and disciples. We ourselves can only praise God for the ministry and writings of Mrs Ellen White as prophet to the 2300 day prophecy, and guide to the remnant church. We know He is alive and in ultimate control of the affairs of this world, and His church.

Thank you for your attention, wishing you God’s richest blessings, and our earnest prayers are with the work of the Ellen G. White Estate….

Sincerely yours in Christ,
Vada ...

Yes, Ron Wyatt did say that he found very old, dried human blood, and due to the location and circumstances that it was found, it could only have been the blood of Jesus. This was confirmed when it was analysed, i.e. it was determined to be human, yet it had unique properties. Specifically, the chromosomes indicated it belonged to a man with no biological human father, i.e. a virgin birth.

It would be easy to ignore this claim if it were the only discovery Ron told people about. We all know very well that there are many false teachers in the world today. And in fact when I first heard about this discovery back in the 1980s from a visiting preacher, I didn't take it very seriously. But later I learned that Ron Wyatt had made many other significant discoveries, the most of which can be investigated easily, and confirmed one way or the other. And people tend to forget that. Please don’t miss that point. While people question Ron’s claims in areas that can’t be confirmed, there are many than can be.

Yes, there are some of Ron’s findings that can’t easily be investigated without either large resources, or out-of-the-ordinary opportunities. Let me give you some examples of those.

(1) For instance, it is virtually impossible to visit Saudi Arabia to confirm Ron’s findings regarding Mt Sinai. It is a country with very restrictive entry conditions, and they do not issue tourist visas to visit Jebel El Lawz. Also the religio/political climate in Saudi Arabia makes it hostile towards discoveries that would help confirm Old Testament Jewish history. It would be great if archaeology was always treated as a pure science! But in reality politics has a large say in what goes on.

However, a number of people have been able to enter Saudi Arabia, specifically to investigate Ron’s claims, and they all return with the same testimony: That what is found at Jebel El Lawz indicates it is the real Mt Sinai. These include Bob Cornuke, Larry Williams and Jim & Penny Caldwell (who all feature on the documentary about Mt Sinai, called ‘Mountain of Fire’). There are others too, people that I know personally and have dived with in the Red Sea. These include Dr Lennart Möller, Viveka Ponten and Aaron Sen. They all feature on another excellent documentary, called ‘The Exodus Revealed’ (do a Google search to find it online). All of the above people will confirm that the site first visited by Ron Wyatt in 1984, and identified by him as Mt Sinai, is indeed the best candidate for the real Mt Sinai.

(2) To investigate the Noah’s Ark site more thoroughly would require more than simply scanning it, and this would requires some large resources. The Turkish Government has stipulated that for any serious excavation to take place, the site must first be housed. That is fair enough, because the weather extremes in that region would quickly ruin any exposed remains. But this means that without large backing, the site will remain buried, and only surface investigations are possible. With the advances in technology since the original radar scans were conducted, it would be wonderful to conduct more scans. But again, even this requires a budget larger than the average person can afford.

However, other sites presented by Ron Wyatt can be easily visited and investigated. Let me explain:

(1) Ron shared details of what he proposed were some of the grain storage pits in Egypt, used during the 7 year famine at the time of Joseph. When you visit Saqarra, they are exactly as he described, and makes a lot of sense that these were used for that purpose. In fact, when they were initially excavated decades ago, there were still remnants of grain in the bottom of them. Anyone can go to Egypt today and see these things. It is as Ron Wyatt described.

(2) Ron shared what could have been the remains of Sodom & Gomorrah and other cities of the plain. When you visit these sites, you do find mounds of white and gray material, very eroded, but in a number of places the unusual geometric shapes are still visible. The exposed top of these formations has formed a hard crust, but beneath it is crumbly and powdery. And embedded in the upper layers of these formations are pale, almost white, balls of sulphur, each inside a crusty shell. We took samples home to a lab, had them professionally analysed, and the findings match what we’d expect if Ron Wyatt was correct. The Bible records that the cities were reduced to ashes by burning brimstone (suphur). These mounds of material consist of calcium sulphate and calcium carbonate. If you incinerate limestone buildings with sulphur, that is what you’d expect to have left behind. What’s more the lab report specifically stated that the samples were very ‘clean’, with almost no other trace elements. That is consistent with ash from a furnace, not natural deposits. The sulphur balls proved to be not only very pure elemental sulphur (brimstone), but it was found that they had been ‘cooked’, i.e. exposed to high temperatures.

So I ask you – what would be expected to be left behind when an entire city, with stone buildings, was incinerated with fire and brimstone as described in Genesis 19? I put to you that these sites are exactly that, considering what we are told took place there 3900 years ago. And anyone can go to the Dead Sea and confirm this discovery today. It is exactly as Ron Wyatt described.

(3) Ron presented a location in the Gulf of Aqaba for the Red Sea Crossing site. This is consistent with an Exodus route leading to the real Mt Sinai in Saudi Arabia. The Jewish historian, Josephus, gives details that confirm this Red Sea crossing site, and Jebel El Lawz, as being the correct sites. Our dives trips have confirmed (a) unusual shapes in the coral on the sea bed off Nuweiba, consistent with coral encrusted chariot remains on the sea bed, (b) remnants of metal objects in this coral, by using metal detectors, (c) coral encrusted human and horse bones, and (d) our depth soundings have revealed a sea-bed slope that would allow multitudes of people to cross from one shore to the other very easily if the water was removed. Despite the gradual slope, the water is still reaches a depth of about ½ mile in the middle, which explains why not one Egyptian survived when the water came crashing back in (see Psa 136:15, Psa 106:11).

At this point, let me add a very important note. The best evidence for any genuine Biblical site is not the artefacts found, but how well it matches what Inspiration says on a subject. Regarding the Red Sea crossing site, it is the ONLY location on the Red Sea that fits Inspiration. Even if no remains had yet been found, it would still be the Red Sea crossing site based on what the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy tell us.
Consider the details in these quotes:

From Succoth, their journey was over barren hills and desolate plains (4T 21), a dreary, desertlike expanse (PP 283) on a route called "the way of the wilderness of the Red Sea" (Exo 13:18). They then turned (Exo 14:2) off the usual course into a valley hemmed in by mountains (RH 8-Oct-1903, p.2). The way grew strange and perplexing (ST 10-Mar-1881 p.5). They followed a rocky defile (PP 283.2) down to the Red Sea walled in on each side (4T 21.2). Weary and hungry, they reach the Red Sea, still walled in right and left by ranges of impassable mountains (ST 10-Mar-1881, p.5). To the south a rugged mountain obstructs their progress (ST 1-Apr-1880 p.9). There seemed no way of escape (RH 8-Jul-1890, p.1). There, in this mountain fastness beside the sea (PP 290.1), more than two million Israelites (PP 333.3) had sufficient space to set up camp (RH, 8-Oct-1903, p.3). The Hebrews were in a wilderness that was "out of Egypt" (Exo 14:11). The Pharaoh hearing of their location, exclaims "They are entangled in the land, the wilderness hath shut them in" (Exo 14:3) and sets out after them to compel them to return (RH, July 8, 1890 par. 1). Despite being surrounded and "walled in by impassible mountains" in a mountain fastness, when the Egyptian army was approaching, the Hebrews saw "in the distance" the flashing armor and moving chariots "betokening the advance guard of a great army." (PP 283.5).

If one was to go to Egypt, and follow all these clues to find the Red Sea crossing site, you will only arrive at Nuweiba on the Gulf of Aqaba. Interestingly, Ron Wyatt told us that it was through reading some of these descriptions from Ellen White that he found the right location.

So anyone can go to the Sinai Peninsula and investigate this discovery today. It is both exactly as Ron Wyatt described, and exactly what we should find based on what all should know from studying our books.

Warm regards

Ross Patterson

We agree wholeheartedly with Redfog that the Answers in Genesis (AiG) website would be worth exploring and provide some wonderful evidence in favour of a literal six day creation, and young age for this earth.

But the interdenominational AiG ministry, like any other on earth, is not infallible. The seventh day Sabbath, for instance, despite its being a major “answer in Genesis”, is still opposed (some use stronger terms) by AiG. We can always hope and pray for better things, but over the years many have sent material to AiG to explain the Sabbath doctrine, to little apparent avail.

In regard to the discovery claims of Ron Wyatt, as supported by Jonathan Gray, blatant errors in reporting (including errors in the now oft-quoted article, “Amazing Ark Expose”, Creation Ex Nihilo, Sept. – Nov.1992) have remained uncorrected, this also despite repeated appeals. Some describe the AiG attitude to the Wyatt discovery claims as “obsessively hostile.”

John Mackay, who also gives a very able defence of the literal creation story and lectures around the world, was once managing director of this organization (or Creation Science Foundation, as it was once known). Some years ago he resigned for reasons of conscience and formed the rival ministry, Creation Research Centre. See www.creationresearch.net. This is another website worth exploring. The same spirit of hostility is said to have been directed by AiG against John Mackay’s ministry. Some evidence of this fact comes through in the “Amazing Ark Expose” article as mentioned above. John Mackay, we understand, maintains a neutral or more open-minded position on the Wyatt discovery claims.

Indeed, value the AiG website for its witness to the literal six day creation. But in our opinion the genuine lover of truth must look beyond AiG to find the balanced picture on the subject of the Wyatt discovery claims. One source which ought to be checked out is the book by Jonathan Gray, DISCOVERIES: Questions Answered. For ordering details see the website: www.beforeus.com/shopcart_hc.html

“And Gideon made an ephod … which thing became a snare unto Gideon, and to his house.” Judges 8:27. “When the armies of the Lord have gained a signal victory, Satan will redouble his efforts to overthrow the work of God… those [like Gideon] who are placed in the highest positions may lead astray, especially if they feel that there is no danger. The wisest err; the strongest grow weary… It is a solemn thought that the removal of one safeguard from the conscience, the failure to fulfil one good resolution, the formation of one wrong habit, may result not only in our own ruin, but in the ruin of those who have put confidence in us…” Conflict and Courage, p. 129.

The Record (SDA Church paper for the South Pacific Division) of July 1, 2006, carries the news article, “Thames outreach sees 42 choose Sabbath.” It tells of a very successful mission program conducted by Jonathan Gray for the North New Zealand Conference. Jonathan has been one of Ron Wyatt’s most prominent supporters. His first few Thames mission lectures dwelt upon Ron’s major discoveries. Mission interests are being nurtured in particular by local pastor, Les Worsley. We understand that so much interest in the message has been generated at Thames that the church is now bursting at the seams, still growing, and the Conference has called an assistant pastor to the area.

We have further heard that several Sabbath’s ago, a Union President preached the Sabbath sermon at Thames. At the end, seeing all the interest and experiencing a string of rather arresting providences, he is reported to have said something to the effect, “I have received several protest letters as a result of the Record report on Brother Gray’s mission effort in Thames, and I have not known how to respond. Now I do. If God is endorsing this work—as the evidence clearly indicates He is—then so must we.”

I have just telephoned Jonathan and he says he is willing to make available FREE OF CHARGE to anyone who asks, an e-book on the Wyatt discoveries. For contact details see the website: www.beforeus.com

Vada

Vada,
I emailed Jonathan 2 weeks ago inquiring and asking for the free ebook, he said that it would be the next email out and sent in an attachment, but instead my next email was a newsletter, and I have emailed him regarding the free ebook again (twice now) and will see what happens.
I was very excited about this cause I find this type of material to be encouraging, but am very disappointed at how long it has taken for this gentleman to get back to me on this.
Hopefully it will not be the same material which is found on the internet itself, but exited all the same.
God Bless,
Will

I got it last night!! I will be reading this over the weekend
God Bless,
Will

Will,

Greetings! Thanks for the friendly Hello. Glad you finally received the e-book. I have not seen or read this book myself, so do not know what you have received. On the telephone on Sunday (I live in Australia, Jonathan Gray lives in North New Zealand) Jonathan said he thought he had sent you the e-book two weeks earlier, when you first asked, but he must have made a mistake somewhere with the technology. He was sorry about the delay.

Because Jonathan has written a fairly widely known and controversial book called Ark of the Covenant , because there has been a lot of misunderstanding and misrepresentation, and because it is still true that we can judge people and teachings “by their fruits”, perhaps I could here try to tell some NZ news. I will do my best in haste from afar, but am sure a first hand account from someone in the know in North New Zealand would read much better.

1. 29 September 2006. A news report came over New Zealand’s main TV station last Friday evening, showing a large billboard Jonathan has erected near Thames. See http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/838558?bandwidth=128k

We have seen a copy of this telecast. The billboard offers a $1 million reward to anyone who can find a Bible text which proves Sunday keeping. Jonathan was interviewed and said he was very confident he would never have to pay out. The newscaster said they had asked the local [Sunday-keeping] ministers for comment, but they have declined to become involved. Jonathan’s recent mission in Thames, involving introductory meetings on the major discovery claims of Ron Wyatt, have apparently generated much discussion around the city, and the ministers are not happy about the loss of members in some instances. Other ministers have themselves turned and accepted the Sabbath, one or two with many of their congregation joining them. Jonathan says he has been receiving many phonecalls as a result of the billboard.

2. Sabbath, 30 September 2006. Ten persons were baptized at the Thames SDA Church, as a result of Jonathan’s mission program and the nurturing efforts of the local pastors. About 150 persons were present, a big crowd considering the size of the little church before the mission program commenced. The presence of God was very evident in the proceedings. Many others are preparing for baptism. Somewhere along the way, a plaque expressing thanks and appreciation to Jonathan was presented to him, and he was apparently deeply moved by this.

3. Sabbath, 23 September 2006. An important meeting of the Maori people of New Zealand convened. Their queen had passed away just a couple of weeks earlier, generating some unrest. The Maoris have been agitating for the last 166 years without much progress in achieving their aims. Five persons from the Thames group still studying under Jonathan and the local pastors, were providentially left in charge of this meeting. One of these persons (a European) is a retired Hebrew scholar, another a member of the Privy Council. Secular and political concerns (some seeing violence and confrontation as the way to achieve their goals) were laid aside, and instead they gave lectures showing that elements of Maori customs and legends indicated they had their roots in the Hebrew people of the Bible. Instead of stirring up the spirit of violence and confrontation, the speakers of the day sought to show the Maori people that the cause of their problems was that they had lost their spiritual roots. The speakers appealed to the Maori people to become connected to the Creator God, to focus on higher standards of family living, and on keeping holy the seventh day Sabbath. The leading Maori spokesperson, an engineer, has already become a committed seventh day Sabbath keeper.

That all sounds like a big PRAISE THE LORD to me!

Blessings,

Vada

First of all - I "prefer" to believe that Ron Wyatt did find what he claims. But I have no real proof. I have see no compelling artifacts nor have I seen any expert witnesses confirming his findings, nor is there a vide of the finding of the ark of the Covenant etc. So for me -- it is just a preference short of getting some divine revelation -- which of course I would not object to at all.



In the statement above - the point is that God's law will be seen in the sky - as will the hand of God be seen there. However it does not say that the two tablets from Sinai will be flying up in the sky.

in Christ,

Bob

I've heard some promoting the Ark was under Christ's cross, the ground broke, His blood ran down through the dry crack and onto the Ark. They claim there was two atonements made on the Ark and the other one involved blood and water just as came out of Christ's side.

Disregarding any reason for such an atonement, try as I might, I cannot find any two atonements on the ark, nor a mix of blood and water. Does anyone know about this?

According to the story ---

"In August of 1978, Ron Wyatt was walking along Gordon's Calvary Escarpment in the Garden Tomb in Jerusalem, talking with a local authority about Roman antiquities. Without warning, Ron's left hand pointed to a site there and his mouth said, "That's Jeremiah's Grotto and the Ark of the Covenant is in there."


"Miraculously" he was given permission to do some digging.

Ron Wyatt discovered four cross holes, one set a little higher than the others, which he believed was where Christ's cross stood, and the two thieves would have been on to of the lower crosses.
Under the upper cross hole there was what looked like a crack created by an earthquake.

After much digging Wyatt apparently found several artifacts from the temple including the ark of the covenant in cavern under the cross -- and apparently blood had run through the crack and down onto the ark's lid.

THE BLOOD AND WATER:

The report has this to say:

"1John 5:8-11 says the water and the blood of Christ were in the earth at the time of writing, approximately 35 years after the cross. "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." Furthermore it says that this water and blood is the testimony, or witness of God to the world, testifying to us that His Son died, "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son...And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. "

http://www.covenantkeepers.co.uk/

At present, I don't know of any sanctuary ceremony of water and blood on the ark.


Also Wyatt's findings have some large ? behind them. The biggest is that there is no concrete evidence that he found the ark.

Secondly, Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary with His Blood to work as our high priest.