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Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69775
08/06/05 03:56 AM
08/06/05 03:56 AM
W
Windsor  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 50
United States
Many people know that the late Adventist, Ron Wyatt, claimed to have found the ark of the covenant under what he believed was the crucifixtion site. Google for it, and you'll even find a picture supposedly showing an angel he found guarding the ark. Well, apparently, his "followers" are back on the trail as evidenced in the following article:

For centuries, many have wondered whatever happened to the Ark of the Covenant, the box the Bible says contained the Ten Commandments of God.


Ark of the Covenant depicted in 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' (Paramount Pictures)

Now, a new quest is underway for the legendary chest featured in the film "Raiders of the Lost Ark," trying to prove the claim the Ark is buried below the purported site where Jesus Christ was crucified.

An international team has just completed what it calls its first stage of exploration, spending two weeks beneath Mount Moriah outside the walls of ancient Jerusalem.

Some 30 explorers from the U.S., Australia, Norway and Estonia have been in a cave system north of the city's Damascus Gate to try to determine if the Ark is indeed located there.

The group is trying to verify the claim made by relic hunter Ron Wyatt who said he actually saw the Ark there two decades ago after tunneling through a small passageway.


Chariot in Red Sea? (wyattmuseum.com)

Wyatt died of cancer in 1999 after years of searching for biblical antiquities, claiming to have found Noah's Ark near Mount Ararat in Turkey, the remains of Pharaoh's chariots that chased Moses through the Red Sea, and the "true" location of Mount Sinai in Arabia.

"I just want to know the truth, whatever it is," says Richard Rives, president of Wyatt Archaeological Research in Cornersville, Tenn., which is spearheading the latest effort.


Explorers dig in cave system for Ark of the Covenant (wyattmuseum.com).

While members of his group are not archaeologists by trade – they're doctors, nurses, structural and construction engineers, and businessmen – they are teaming with professional archaeologists from the Israel Antiquities Authority, which has sanctioned the dig.

In 1982, Wyatt entered the caves from a location since sealed, but believed there was an alternate passageway used by the prophet Jeremiah to protect the Ark from invading Babylonians some 600 years before the birth of Christ.

Ironically, during his Ark quest 21 years ago, Wyatt and his crew decided to take a break and go to the movies. Unaware of what was playing, they were surprised to see "Raiders of the Lost Ark," which had just been released.

This summer's research team used ground-penetrating radar to peer below the surface, trying to pinpoint the alleged tunnel of Jeremiah.

Rives believes they met great success while taking samples behind a man-made wall.


David and Richard Rives at man-made wall that could conceal passageway to Ark (wyattmuseum.com).

"We found a void where Ron said there would be a passageway," Rives said.

It's at the end of that passageway where Wyatt believed the sacred container rests.

But once the diggers started excavating beneath the wall, they encountered a problem forcing a halt to the hunt.

"We lost our ceiling to prevent collapse," Rives said. "The people in the antiquities department insisted we stop and do more architectural engineering to determine what it would take to continue safely."

The group is now studying the situation with experts and hopes to be back in business within the next six months.

This latest search effort reignites debate over whether or not the Ark is even located there, since many theories have sprouted concerning the container's whereabouts.

Some claim it's currently in Ethiopia, having been brought there after a visit to Solomon's Temple by the ancient Queen of Sheba. Others have suggested the box is hidden in Spain, Canada, Elephantine Island in Egypt, the Baltic Sea island of Bornholm and even somewhere in America near Utah.

The Bible's final mention of the Ark recounts King Josiah's order to return the chest to the temple:

Put the Holy Ark in the house which Solomon the son of David king of Israel did build; it shall not be a burden upon your shoulders. (2 Chronicles 35:3)

Spiros Zodhiates, editor of the Hebrew-Greek Key Word Study Bible, expounds on the Ark's possible fate subsequent to that verse.

"It may have been carried away by [Babylonian King] Nebuchadnezzar along with the other saved articles, when he plundered the temple," Zodhiates writes.

"Since no reference is made to the Ark by Ezra, Nehemiah or even [Roman historian] Josephus after the capitivity, it is believed that there was no Ark in the second temple and that the Holy of Holies [where the Ark was situated in the temple] stood empty."

Biblical scholar and modern-day relic hunter Mike Sanders, who has gained notoriety with his Biblical Mysteries programs, believes the original Ark was destroyed by a different pagan king, and a replica was constructed to replace it.

"The Ark was certainly taken by the Egyptian King Shishak," Sanders told WorldNetDaily. "There were obviously subsequent copies made as there were of all the other temple accoutrements which were also looted many times over the centuries. This has enabled the myth makers to come up with many wild and wonderful scenarios."

Sanders believes the Ark's contents – the stone tablets etched by God with the Ten Commandments – are located in the foundation deposit of an Egyptian temple he discovered in the Judean hills.

"Hopefully we will extract the contents live on the Internet and on television sometime early next year when the situation in Israel is somewhat safer," he says.

Sanders is among those critical of Wyatt's assertions about the Ark.

"When he was alive, I spent some time asking him questions and asking for evidence [regarding] his claims. None was ever forthcoming to me or anyone else," Sanders said. "In those areas where I have done some investigations, he has proven to be a charlatan."

Just days before his death, Wyatt granted an interview to WorldNetDaily, and addressed such criticism from his detractors.

"There's nothing [that] can be done to prevent ridicule that I'm aware of," Wyatt said. "I don't think it would be appropriate to deny people the opportunity of using ridicule because I think that's part of showing their true character."

During the interview, Wyatt explained he found an earthquake crack directly below the place where the wood on which Jesus was crucified would have been. The cleft extends down through the rock to the resting place of the Mercy Seat representing God's throne atop the Ark of the Covenant. The blood of Christ would have flowed through that crevice after his death and after his side had been pierced by a soldier's spear.


Sketch of Ark of the Covenant based on Wyatt's description (wyattmuseum.com)

The Bible teaches the concept of sacrifice of animals, symbolic of the actual blood sacrifice Christ would make. The act of Christ, regarded by some as the great High Priest, permitting himself to be sacrificed and placing his own blood upon the Mercy Seat was the great and final act in the process of blood sacrifice, according to Wyatt's writings.

And while Wyatt believed the Ark itself would never be moved from its current location, he thought the laws of God inside it would eventually be removed and put on display as a testimony to the world.

"This last revelation is for the inhabitants of the Earth who don't have a clue, as well as for those of us who do have a clue and have been commissioned by Christ to reach out to help bring these people who don't have a clue into the fold," Wyatt told WorldNetDaily.

"So these are tools that God has given the believers to strengthen their faith and to reach out with. They are tools that will be extremely effective in these the last pouring out to the entire population, all inhabitants of the Earth."

Rives says from a biblical standpoint, it makes perfect sense the Ark would be located where Wyatt claimed and be covered with Christ's own blood.

"What's important about the Ark is what's inside of it – the Ten Commandments, the Covenant," said Rives.

While many people talk about sin in the modern world, Rives points out the Bible defines sin as breaking the law recorded on the tablets inside the Ark.

"For sin is the transgression of the law." (1 John 3:4)

"The first four Commandments teach us who our Creator is and how he wants us to worship Him," said Rives. "There's an adversary, Satan. He wants to be God if he can get us to break those first four Commandments. Many aspects of religion today are in violation of the first four Commandments."

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69776
08/06/05 09:50 AM
08/06/05 09:50 AM
Jan  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 211
Ohio
Some interesting quotes from the White Estate about the Ark - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/ark.html#The%20Law%20Kept

quote:
"Before the temple was destroyed, God made known to a few of His faithful servants the fate of the temple, which was the pride of Israel, and which they regarded with idolatry, while they were sinning against God. He also revealed to them the captivity of Israel. These righteous men, just before the destruction of the temple, removed the sacred ark containing the tables of stone, and with mourning and sadness, secreted it in a cave where it was to be hid from the people of Israel, because of their sins, and was to be no more restored to them. That sacred ark is yet hid. It has never been disturbed since it was secreted."--4SG 114, 115 (1864);1SP 414 (1870); SR 195.

quote:
"The holy law of the ten commandments, written on tables of stone by the finger of God, and placed in the ark, is the standard of righteousness. Before the obedient and the disobedient it will appear in the last great day, and all the wicked will be convicted. They will see that their actions proceeded from a depraved character. They will see that the part they acted served to carry on the rebellion begun in the heavenly courts. They will see all the cruelty and all the wickedness that have dishonored their Creator and brought about the wretchedness that fills the world."--Ms 5, 1904 (13MR 381).


quote:
"The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, safely hidden from the human family. But in God's appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath."--Ms 122, 1901 (1BC 1109).
"When God's temple in heaven is opened, what a triumphant time that will be for all who have been faithful and true! In the temple will be seen the ark of the testament in which were placed the two tables of stone, on which are written God's law. These tables of stone will be brought forth from their hiding place, and on them will be seen the ten commandments engraved by the finger of God. These tables of stone now lying in the ark of the testament will be a convincing testimony to the truth and binding claims of God's law."--Letter 47, 1902 (7BC 972).


Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69777
08/06/05 11:36 AM
08/06/05 11:36 AM
Cheri Fritz  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 278
Gloversville, NY, USA
Greetings Windsor,

Yes, very interesting about the earthly ark of covenant and actually had the opportunity to veiw a couple of Brother Ron Wyatt's tapes.

One thing I do not recall if the pot of manna and the rod of aaron was found too.

quote:
Hebrews
9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

Thank you for sharing Windsor and Jan.

Your Sister in Christ Jesus,
Cheri Fritz

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69778
08/06/05 04:58 PM
08/06/05 04:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Sister White seems to say that the commandments contained within the earthly ark will not be revealed until after the close of probation, when God Himself holds them open in the sky for all to see. I doubt finding them ahead of this time would have any impact on Sunday keepers. They already know what is written on them, but they believe the sabbath was changed to Sunday.

GC 639
While these words of holy trust ascend to God, the clouds sweep back, and the starry heavens are seen, unspeakably glorious in contrast with the black and angry firmament on either side. The glory of the celestial city streams from the gates ajar. Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together. Says the prophet: "The heavens shall declare His righteousness: for God is judge Himself." Psalm 50:6. That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the rule of judgment. The hand opens the tables, and there are seen the precepts of the Decalogue, traced as with a pen of fire. The words are so plain that all can read them. Memory is aroused, the darkness of superstition and heresy is swept from every mind, and God's ten words, brief, comprehensive, and authoritative, are presented to the view of all the inhabitants of the earth. {GC 639.1}

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69779
08/13/05 03:39 AM
08/13/05 03:39 AM
R
rhammen  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 64
Everett, WA USA
Even if one is raised from the dead, you will not believe.

Except ye see signs and wonders, you will not believe.

The Sabbath is too great of a restriction for most people especially in an age where churches can be so dynamic and alive. Why would people want to get tangled up in that sort of legalism.

As Mountain Man says, the finding of the arc wouldn't make a difference. It's too bad that God doesn't send an angel to visibly appear to convert everyone like shows like "Touched by and Angel" show. He wants us to feel our need of him. His people need to exalt the law so the honest in heart my see their need of a savior.

You know what would be cool? Maybe we should try burning our tortillas in a way that the two plates of the ten commandments appear, then sell them on Ebay, make the news, and enlighten the world to the present truth.

It's not a bad idea.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69780
05/04/06 10:42 PM
05/04/06 10:42 PM
B
bethybug  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 61
Ga
in the last video I saw of Ron Wyatt he had just seen the outside of the ark of the covenant and then fainted and did not go back. To my understanding no one had opened that ark that was under where the cross was.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69781
05/06/06 12:43 AM
05/06/06 12:43 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
The Ten Commandment Day emphasis is bringing the Ten Commandments to the forefront in which we have an opportunity to present the Ten Commandments like never before.

I am glad to see that 3ABN is doing a weekend emphasis on the Ten Commandments.



In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69782
05/06/06 08:30 PM
05/06/06 08:30 PM
Redfog  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 733
Michigan, USA
Answers in Genesis is a well respected orginization dedicated to Creation research. They have several articles about Ron Wyatt.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/search/default.aspx?qt=Ron%20Wyatt

And while you are at their site take some time to explore it a bit. Then email it to your non literal six day creation (non Bible believing)friends. It's a good site in which you can spend countless hours reading research and articles supporting Creation.

Redfog

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69783
07/30/06 04:54 AM
07/30/06 04:54 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Hi, I just found this forum through Google, and have been interested in the comments made. Please permit me to add a few thoughts from my first-hand experiences.

I first heard of Ron Wyatt in the 1980s through others, and became personally aquainted with him when we invited him to Australia on two occasions to present his findings in public meetings. I stayed in his home for several weeks not long before he passed away in 1999. Since then, I have been on 6 visits to the Middle East, specifically to investigate his claims and further document and research them.

Everything that can be checked out is exactly as he says, and when considered carefully, is exactly what one would expect to find based on the details in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. Specifically: - The coral encrusted chariot remains in the Red Sea, the ashen remains of the cities of the plains, the outline of the remains of a huge ship in the mountains of Urartu (Ararat). I have friends who have been to Jebel El Lawz in Saudi Arabia, confirming it is exactly what one would expect to find at the Biblical Mt Sinai, and exactly as per Ron's presentations.

Even more importantly, when compared with Inspiration, each of these findings are what should be found, given the details written under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and allowing for the length of time since the events took place.

And regarding the Ark of the Covenant, everything that can be currently investigated in Jerusalem fits with Ron's presentations on the Ark of the Covenant.

Based on my experiences, the evidences bring me to the conclusion that he was used to by God to locate the hiding place of the Ark, in preparation for the fulfillment of 1BC 1109.2, when the Tables of the 10 commandments written by God at Mt Sinai (not the original set in Heaven) will be brought forth as part of the witness for the immutability of God's law at the time Sunday Laws are being pushed.

If anyone has any specific questions, I'd be glad to respond and share what I have learned.

Regards

Ross Patterson

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69784
07/31/06 04:00 AM
07/31/06 04:00 AM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
Welcome Ross,

As I read it in 1BC 1109.2-5, God will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world, but in the great judgment day, after probation is closed and all cases are decided. Is this your understanding? This is a critical distinction.

Have you come across any giant skeletons in your travels so far?

Is Dogubayazet off limits now with the U.S. intervention in Turkey and the imminent (nuclear) attack on Iran? Is the Ark site (Noah's) still open?

Hope to hear more from you,

Regards,

Gordon B

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69785
07/31/06 09:40 AM
07/31/06 09:40 AM
G
Gregory  Offline
SDA
Chaplain

Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
Re: "Everything that can be checked out is exactly as he says, and when considered carefully, is exactly what one would expect to find based on the details in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy."

Oh!

There are others who take the position that much of what he stated does not check out.

The above is typically made by those who have studied in the field in which he wrote. That applies to each of your specific examples. For example, you mention the outline of a large ship in the area of Ararat: There is much that has been written on that which is said by many to show that what he has stated does not check out.

Allow me to give another example. Prior to his death, he proclaimed on the Web that he had discovered the living shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and one could go on the Internet and look at a microscopic slide of what he claimed to be that living shed blood. I accessed that view. What he claimed to be be proof of life was clearly Brownian Movement. Brownian Movement has never been proof of life. Only a person ignorant of what one sees under a microscope would make such a statement.

NOTES:

Yes, I am experienced at looking at blood under a microscope.

Yes, I am aware that following Rom's death, the Internet claim of the discovery of the living shed blood of Christ has been modified.


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69786
07/31/06 07:26 PM
07/31/06 07:26 PM
G
Gregory  Offline
SDA
Chaplain

Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
I have again visited the Ron Wyatt website. Any of you who would like to see the current display of the claimed blood of Christ, please click on the following URL:

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/ark-of-the-covenant-07b.htm

As time passes following Ron's death, the website has undergone several changes. My comment in the above post was to it as it existed some time back. Who knows what it will be like in the future.

NOTE: The above comment is meant to be neither negative, nor positive. It simply is.


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69787
08/01/06 09:59 AM
08/01/06 09:59 AM
Ross  Offline
New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5
Australia/New Zealand
Thank you Gordon, and I'll see if I can answer your question.

>Is this your understanding? This is a critical distinction.

I agree this is a critical distinction, but from my study, it's both. There are two sets of tables, one set in a cave on earth (PK 453.2), and the great original set in the heavenly sanctuary. Both sets are said to be brought forth in the future, the ones given Moses at Mt Sinai (see 1BC 1109.2), and the set in the heavenly sanctuary (see 20MR 68.4).

We know from the Great Controversy, page 639.1, that the 10 Commandments will be displayed in the sky. This happens right down at the end of time, during the 7 last plagues, after the close of probation. This must be an event seen all over the world simultaneously, so sounds most likely the set kept in the heavenly sanctuary displayed to the world in fulfillment of 20MR 68.4.

But I believe that event, in 20MR 68.4, is not involving the set on earth. Rather, the 1BC 1109.2 quote says that at an appointed time, God will bring forth THESE (the copy on earth) tables of stone, as a witness against the counterfeit Sabbath. That would be consistent with what Ron Wyatt said he believed would happen, i.e. that these tables of stone would come out around the time of the Sunday law legislation.

It's interesting to note that the passage in GC 639.1 says that when the people see the tables of stone in the sky, their "memory is aroused". Have they seen something like these before? That fits in with a previous bringing forth of the earthly tables of stone from the cave.

Also of note is that the GC 639.1 passage connects the tables in the sky to this verse in Psalms: "And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself." Psa 50:6

That verse parallels Psa 85:11, which says "righteousness shall look down from heaven". What is interesting is the first half of that verse... "Truth shall spring out of the earth".

That strongly suggests two connected events, with the second one related to a display of tables of stone in the sky. If the first one is talking about 'truth' coming up out of the "Earth", that would fit the quote in 1BC 1109.2.

Also, interestingly in support of Ron Wyatt's entire scenario, the previous verse (vs. 10) is connected to the crucifixion. See CSW 171.2, FW 59.3, SD 243.4, TSS 78.1, TMK 10.3, RH Dec 20 1892 par.10, etc. That would suggest a link between the events at the crucifixion, and the future bringing out of the tables of stone on earth.

When considering the 1BC 1109 quote, something to bear in mind is that the three paragraphs talking on this subject on that page were written in different manuscripts, many years apart. Did you notice that the first paragraph was written in 1901, the 2nd in 1908, and the last one 10 months later in 1909? But that can be missed on the first reading if you don't look at the references.

When paragraphs are compiled like this, we need to take a little care that any conclusions we come to are fair to the context. Don't misunderstand me, compilations of EGW works are a wonderful blessing, but we should be conscious of the full context. 1BC 1109.2 is speaking of the earthly tables of stone, whereas the tables of stone mentioned in 1BC 1109.4 parallel the ones in 20MR 68.4, so they are the set in the temple in heaven. Can you see the distinction?

>Have you come across any giant skeletons in your travels so far?

Not complete ones, but I have held and videoed two giant finger bones that Ron had at his house. One was about 2 1/2 times the size of an adults, so it belonged to an enormous person.

Heres a picture of it...



And I have heard accounts of giant skulls in Turkey, the size of basketballs. It would great to be able to follow up those reports.

>Is Dogubayazet off limits now with the U.S. intervention in Turkey and the imminent (nuclear) attack on Iran?

Not that I have heard. When we were there last, we were told by locals that it was commonly believed in Iran that the USA is planning to ultimately attack them. It's concerning, and obviously we all hope it doesn't happen.

>Is the Ark site (Noah's) still open?

It was still open when we last visited about 12 months ago, and a friend of mine visited Turkey earlier this year, and had no problems. The Iranian border crosses over the ridge above the Ark site, and there is a Turkish army base at the bottom of the hill, with both armies having lookout posts around the hills in view of the Ark site. So it's a heavy militarized area, but last I heard it was still o.k. travelling there to visit.

Hope that helped, regards

Ross

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69788
08/01/06 10:06 AM
08/01/06 10:06 AM
Ross  Offline
New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5
Australia/New Zealand
Thank you for your questions Gregory, and I'll see if I can answer them to your satisfaction. Please let me speak plainly, because these are important issues. First, can I share a principle from Inspiration? Consider this quote:

"The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority--not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith." {GC 595.1}

Much of what is called 'science' today blurs the distinction between pure science and human opinion. One good example of this is the field of Evolution, which is considered a firm and settled part of science by a majority of scientists today, but in reality it is mixture of science and speculation. People accept as given areas that are not possible to determine by testing or direct observation, e.g. the age of the earth. Evolution is built upon faith in unproven theories. And because it is has become so entrenched in the academic world today, when new discoveries contradict evolutionary theory (like Robert Gentry's work on the radio halos in granites) it has little impact on the beliefs of most scientists.

The issues over the Noah's Ark site are of a similar nature, and so the principle in the above quote is very applicable. Yes, many 'learned men' are critical of the site, but because it has not yet been excavated, their conclusions are not based on definitive observation. This is obvious when one considers the variety of discordant opinions expressed concerning the Noah's ark site:

- Colin Murry-Wallace: "nothing more than a plunging syncline, the top of which has been weathered."
- John Morris: "represents a rare belt of dark crystalline rock with manganese nodules."
- John Baumgardner: "...clay and rock debris flowing around an isolated block."
- Clifford Burdick: "clay up-push in a lava flow."
- Ian Plimer (before visiting the site): "plunging geo-syncline"
- Ian Plimer (after visiting the site): "an allochthonous block"
- Lawrence G. Collins: "doubly plunging syncline."
- Murat Avic: "a large hard rock slab from the Miocene limestone"

However, the evidence that has been able to be gleaned from the site and the surrounding area is what we'd expect if this is the remains of Noah's Ark. It is the precise length we'd expect, radar scans show an internal structure too regular to be merely random natural geology, samples are consistent with what we'd expect from Noah's Ark, etc, etc.

And very importantly, the site is in line with what we'd expect from Inspiration regarding the landing site of Noah's Ark:

"The Lord remembered Noah, and as the waters decreased, he caused the ark to rest upon the top of a cluster of mountains, which God in his power had preserved and made to stand fast all through that violent storm. These mountains were but a little distance apart, and the ark moved about and rested upon one, then another, of these mountains, and was no more driven upon the boundless ocean. This gave great relief to Noah and all within the ark." {1SP 80.1}

So we have to look for a 'cluster' of mountain peaks, a little distantce apart, and which must be remnants of pre-flood mountains (i.e. NOT a volcano). This description would exclude the post-flood volcano, Mt Ararat, where many look for the Ark today. Rather, this is a very good description of the mountain tops around the Durupinar site.

Quote:


>Allow me to give another example. Prior to his death, he proclaimed on the Web that he had discovered the living shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and one could go on the Internet and look at a microscopic slide of what he claimed to be that living shed blood. I accessed that view. What he claimed to be be proof of life was clearly Brownian Movement. Brownian Movement has never been proof of life. Only a person ignorant of what one sees under a microscope would make such a statement.




This may surprise you, but I agree with your last sentence. A very important principle is not to attribute a position to a person simply because others who claim to speak for them say so. Ron Wyatt never put forward the "Somatid" theory. It was not on the original website that he helped establish (www.anchorstone.com), and it was added to the wyattmuseum.com website by others only after his death. The fact it has since been modified was not a retraction of something that Ron believed, for he never held to the Somatid theory, but a retraction by those who claimed to be speaking for him.

Another example of this kind of unfortunate misrepresentation is the issue of the Wednesday crucifixion. Certain individuals at WAR claim that Ron believed Christ was in the tomb "three days and three nights". But I know from Ron Wyatt's talks (I have this on video, filmed during a meeting here in New Zealand in 1999) that he believed as we do, i.e. Friday crucifixion. But if you were to accept what WAR says that Ron believed, you wouldn't think so.

Be careful of attributing false things to Ron Wyatt simply because someone else claims he believed a certain way, even if appearances make it look like they are speaking on behalf of him. I'm sure you can appreciate this principle. The sad history of the Christian church, and how so many who profess to be Christian in fact misrepresent Jesus, is another example of this. The perception in many non-Christian cultures as to what Christianity is all about does not reflect genuine Christianity, because of the abuse by many professed Christians. So be careful of false witnesses.

At the end of the day, the real questions do not concern Ron Wyatt's character, they concern the evidences for the Biblical sites themselves. And of these, there is much that can be confirmed easily. And this is always a more productive area to discuss, and is more relevant to us today as Christians seeking to share God's word with a lost world.

Hope that helps, and look forward to your thoughts. Regards, Ross

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69789
08/01/06 12:44 PM
08/01/06 12:44 PM
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Gregory  Offline
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Re: "Ron Wyatt never put forward the "Somatid" theory. It was not on the original website that he helped establish (www.anchorstone.com), and it was added to the wyattmuseum.com website by others only after his death. The fact it has since been modified was not a retraction of something that Ron believed, for he never held to the Somatid theory, but a retraction by those who claimed to be speaking for him."

And

"Be careful of attributing false things to Ron Wyatt simply because someone else claims he believed a certain way, even if appearances make it look like they are speaking on behalf of him."


I will make a couple of comments. All of them are based upon a several year-old memory of events. As my memory is imperfect, feel free to correct anything that I say that is inaccurate:

1) I first visited the Ron Wyatt website during the time that Ron Was alive, as I recall. So, at that time, I will assume that it represented Ron's thinking, and not that of someone who wrote after his death.

2) I do not recall any mention of the "somatid theory" on his website. Therefore I do not attribute that theory to him, and in my post did not intend to attribute that to him. What I do recall, is his claim to have discovered the shed blood of Christ, and that the discovered blood was still alive, which was to be expected as Christ was God, and diety, cannot die.

3) I also recall a vidio clip on that website which was claimed to be a video of a microscopic slide of that shed blood of Christ. That video showed particle movement, which was put forth to be evidence that the blood was alive at the time it was observed on a slide. I do not recall that any mention was made of the so-called "somatid theory." As one who has seen many slides of both animal and human blood, I recognized the particle movement at Brownian Movement. I will say again that Brownian Movement has never been a sign of life. It is an observable feature in objects that are under microscopic observation. Thse objects do not have to be living. In fact, the particles that are participating in the Brownian Movement are never alive.

4) I have viewed the current posting of the slide on the current website. As I compare it in my mind with what I remember of the posted slide on the website when Ron was alive, it appears to me that the current slide has been enhanced. The slide that I remember fits the more classic rendition of Brownian Movement than does the current slide. If the current one has been enhanced, I do not criticize them for doing so. Such enhancement may be a valid approach to such objects. I simply say that I remember it in a more classic form, and the current one appears to me to be enhanced.

5) Based upon the above, to include the fact that I did not mention the "somatid theory" in connection with Ron Wyatt, I do not believe that I have falsely attributed anything to him. Now, if you are telling us that Ron never claimed to have discovered the living shed blood of Christ, which I did attribute to him, that is another matter.


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69790
08/01/06 01:13 PM
08/01/06 01:13 PM
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Gregory  Offline
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Re: "This is obvious when one considers the variety of discordant opinions expressed concerning the Noah's ark site:"

Ross, you then post the names of seven people and their opinions. As I understand you, you are telling us that these opinions are dicordant, or to put it another way disagree.

I do not understand that. I read your posting, and to me they are not in disagreement. Rather, they can be stated in one consistent statement. I might organize them into the following statement:


"The formation suggested to be that of Noah's Ark consists of Miocene limestone (Avic), which has manganese nodules (Morris), was formed in another location (Plimer--after), and now sits in a bed of folded rock (Murry-allace, Plimer-before, and Collins). This block of rock is surrounded by clay and rock debris (Baumgardner)."

Now, as to Burdick, I will grant you that his view does seem to be somewhat in disagreement with the others. So, I have not included his in my statement.

Let us look at some of the meanings of the words used by the people that you cited:

Synclyne: This simply means a bed of folded rock. The other words that were used in connection to synclyne simply give additional meaning to the bed of folded rock.

Allochthonous: Simply means that the rock was formed elsewhere, and transported to that location. The word Autochthonous would mean, if it had been used, that the rock had been formed locally, and not in another location.

Ross, you fail to show me that the people you cited are in any kind of substantial disagreement, with the possible exception of Burdick, and there are some explainations for him.


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69791
08/01/06 01:22 PM
08/01/06 01:22 PM
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Gregory  Offline
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Re: "The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority--not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith." {GC 595.1}"

Ross, your citation from EGW relates to religious faith.

The belief in a global flood, and an Ark which held Noah and his family, is a point of religious faith.

But, I do not believe that the claims of Ron Wyatt should be elevated to religious faith. I also do not believe that the claim that the remains of Noah's Ark rest on a mountain in Turkey should be elevated to a point of religious faith.

Surely you will allow me to beleive, in a global flood, and disbelieve that the ramians of Noah's Ark rest on that mountain. If they do not, that does not destroy one's belief in a global flood.

So, I ask you when you cite a statement from EGW in connection with a discussion abour the remains of Noah's ark resting on a Turkish mountain, not to elevate that to a statement of religious faith.

In the same vein, if I do not beleive, as I do not, that Roan Wyatt discoverd the living shed blood of Christ, that you you do not assume that I deny the death of Christ. Ron Wyatt's claimed discovery should not be elevated to a point of religious faith. NOTE: I am aware that you have not stated such. I am simply further illustrating my point.


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69792
08/01/06 01:31 PM
08/01/06 01:31 PM
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Gregory  Offline
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Ross, I will conclude with a reference to an earlier post of mine:

You said: "Everything that can be checked out is exactly as he says, and when considered carefully, is exactly what one would expect to find based on the details in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy."

I then responded:

"Oh!

There are others who take the position that much of what he stated does not check out."


That is exactly the actuality. There are Bible blieving, Christians who believe that much of what Ron Wyatt said does not check out. I am one of those. I am not going to get into a point by point discussion of why I beleive as I do.

Further, I am not going to get into some of the more personal areas in which Ron has been attacked. That is not my style.

If you and others want to accept what Ron has said, fine. I am simply posting, not to contradict him, but because you have stated that: "Everything that can be checked out is exactly as he says, and when considered carefully, is exactly what one would expect to find based on the details in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy."

I disagree what your statement. So, I am posting in relation to what you said. Things, in my opinion, are not exactly as he said, in everything. I believe that much of what Ron said is not supported.


Gregory
May God's will be done.
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69793
08/02/06 11:40 AM
08/02/06 11:40 AM
Ross  Offline
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Hi Gregory

Thank you for your replies.

Quote:

I have again visited the Ron Wyatt website. Any of you who would like to see the current display of the claimed blood of Christ, please click on the following URL:

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/ark-of-the-covenant-07b.htm




Quote:


"I first visited the Ron Wyatt website during the time that Ron Was alive, as I recall... I do not recall any mention of the "somatid theory" on his website."




That's the point I was making, there was no mention on the site of the Somatid theory when Ron still had a say in the matter. That was added since Ron passed away.

The link you gave above is only the second page of a two-part article, and it is this article which specifically mentions the somatid theory by name. The first half, which introduces the somatid theory, is found at http://www.wyattmuseum.com/ark-of-the-covenant-07.htm

It was not a theory that I ever heard Ron Wyatt promote in any way. Although he didn't say so directly, I got the impression he did not go along with it at all. If you read the article it explains that it is Richard Rives who introduced the idea. And I agree with you, the movement displayed in the video clip that Richard Rives had put on the site looks like Brownian motion.

But this was not what Ron presented as evidence for the blood of Christ. The point being, don't dismiss Ron Wyatt for someone else's errors.

More responses to follow.

Regards, Ross

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69794
08/02/06 01:05 PM
08/02/06 01:05 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Having read the story written by Rons wife, it appears Ron did account this blood sample with some unusual properties. What difference would this make?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69795
08/03/06 05:57 AM
08/03/06 05:57 AM
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The Ellen G. White Estate paper, The Ark of the Covenant, Will It Be Found ? (See http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/ark.html#The%20Law%Kept. I have only in the last three days discovered the interesting MSDAOL website. On 19 July 2006 I sent the email as below to the Ellen G. White Estate. I will introduce it with their gracious response, written 20 July 2006 by Elder William Fagal, Associate Director of the Ellen G. White Estate.

WHITE ESTATE EMAIL OF 20 JULY 2006

Thank you for the thoughtful analysis and suggestions you have made. Our staff will review the document in light of your observations. With various ones out of the office for a while, it may not be something we can accomplish immediately, but we will take the matter seriously and consider whether a revision is in order.

Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this. It will help us to examine the matter with a more sensitive eye. We are always open to improving the documents we have. Thank you again, and God bless!


MY EMAIL OF 19 JULY 2006

… I have been studying the six page White Estate document, “The Ark of the Covenant, Will It Be Found?” (…updated by the Ellen G. White Estate in 1989; web page http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/Ark.html). I find the document a helpful compilation of quotes, and have shared it with several others. But as I have further reflected upon its construction I have discovered some surprises. I know I do not possess all knowledge, but could I make a couple of points as I understand matters.

1. IMPORTANT WORDS LEFT OUT OF AT LEAST TWO QUOTES. Under the sub-heading, “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, the White Estate paper lists eleven quotes, said to be “all the known E.G. White statements on this matter”, i.e. the bringing forth of the tables of stone containing the Ten Commandments on the great judgment day, for all to see. Placing at the commencement of the 3rd and 8th quotes—as Ellen White does—a text which makes clear reference to the earthly Ark of the Covenant, can make a significant difference to the interpretation of these quotes, and even to the final conclusions of the White Estate paper, can it not? Given the overall title and subject of the paper, I believe the omission of these words—as in your 3rd and 8th quotes at least—has to be a mistake. I quote the two paragraphs concerned, for your convenience. The words in bold print and square brackets are left out of the White Estate paper.

THIRD QUOTE, p. 4. “[And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.” (Ex 31:18) Nothing written on those tables could be blotted out.] The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, safely hidden from the human family. But in God’s appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath.” Manuscript 122, 1901 ( SDA Bible Commentary , Vol. 1, p. 1109).

EIGHTH QUOTE, p.4. “[And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.” (Ex 31:18)] There are abundant evidences of the immutability of God’s law. It was written with the finger of God, never to be obliterated, never to be destroyed. The tables of stone are hidden by God, to be produced in the great judgment-day, just as He wrote them.” Review and Herald , March 26, 1908 ( SDA Bible Commentary , Vol. 1, p. 1109) [The words in bold print in Quote 8 are also left out of this passages as quoted in the SDA Bible Commentary .]

2. FULFILLMENTS WRITTEN MORE DECIDEDLY IN THE PAST OR PRESENT TENSE AND INVOLVING A TESTIMONY ON EARTH , ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE LIST CLAIMING TO BE “ALL THE KNOWN E.G. WHITE STATEMENTS ON THIS MATTER”. To introduce the important section entitled, “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, the White Estate document says:

According to the Spirit of Prophecy, the time is coming [we note the FUTURE tense] when the tables of stone on which the Ten Commandments are written will be brought forth [FUTURE tense again] to the view of the inhabitants of earth. All of the known E.G. White statements on this matter are quoted here in chronological order.” White Estate document, p. 3. Emphasis supplied.

As I read what I see as “all the known statements on this matter” on the viewing of the two tables of God’s law, among other things I cannot escape three conclusions:-

1. Ellen White hangs these fulfillments upon Daniel 7:10 (“the judgments was set and the books were opened ”) and Revelation 11:19 (“the temple in heaven was opened …”).

2. The fulfillment of these texts (along with the significant announcement in Rev 10:2 that the little book of Daniel is “ open ”) is a major emphasis of Ellen White’s visions and writings, and the White Estate sub title, “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, is well chosen.

3. Ellen White, in different contexts (as shown below), and in relation to the issue addressed in the document in question, associates Dan 7:10 and Rev 11:19 with fulfillments:
(a) in 1844 and during the investigative judgment occurring 1844 to the close of probation.
(b) which are rewards and punishments future to the close of probation, happening as a result of the decisions made during investigative judgment.
(c) partial fulfillments in the past .

The last and concluding section of the White Estate paper is named, “Two Descriptions of Future Exhibitions.” Those two future fulfillments of prophecies concerning the bringing forth of the tables of the law, are described as the predicted display in the skies, after the close of probation, at the beginning of the seventh plague (GC 639); the other the predicted display in Jesus’ hands after the millennium (GC 668, 669). The eleven quotes under the sub-heading, “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, said to be “all the known statements on this matter”, prepare the mind to receive the conclusion that these two more generally accepted future fulfillments coming after the close of probation, and involving the heavenly tables of the law, are the ONLY events to which Ellen White’s prophecy in question ever make reference.

Ellen White quotes which support past and present fulfillments—as in points 3(a) and 3(c) above, are actually listed in the White Estate document itself, but under other sub-headings. Changing their placement under sub-headings affects the conclusions of this whole subject.

As I see it, in a sub-heading called “When the Judgment Shall Sit”, for the White Estate to proclaim that these are “ALL the known E.G. White statements on the matter”, while listing ONLY the two fulfillments coming after the close of probation, is to symbolically deny: the doctrine of the investigative judgment, the basic message Ellen White was called to preach, and the reason for the existence of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. This is not a nothing issue.

I am a firm believer that prophecies such as Daniel 2, the 70 weeks and 2300 days admit to no dual or multiple fulfillments. But obviously, sometimes Inspiration itself gives dual or multiple fulfillments [to a prophecy], with the completeness of the fulfillment not coming until the last of the stages of fulfillment. Here are other Ellen White quotes, most of them given in the White Estate document itself, but not listed, I believe, where they decidedly belong, i.e. right along with the other eleven quotes under the sub-heading, “When the Judgment Shall Sit.”

a. A Fulfillment In Heaven Nearly 2000 Years Ago, and On Earth In the Experience of John the Revelator. “Here the prophet [John] was permitted to behold the first apartment of the sanctuary in heaven, and he saw there the ‘seven lamps of fire’ [Rev 4:5] and ‘the golden altar,’ represented by the golden candlestick and the altar of incense [Rev 8:2-5] in the sanctuary on earth. Again , ‘the temple of God was opened’ [Rev 11:19 ], and he looked within the inner veil, upon the holy of holies. Here he beheld ‘the ark of His testament,’ represented by the sacred chest constructed by Moses to contain the law of God.” GC 414, 415.

b. A Fulfillment In Heaven In 1844, and On Earth In the Experience of Ellen White. “But the Lord gave me a view of the heavenly sanctuary. The temple of God was opened in heaven [Rev 11:19 ], and I was shown the ark of God…. Jesus raised the cover of the ark, and I beheld the tables of stone on which the ten commandments were written.” 1T 76. (Also listed: EW 251, 252; 255; LS 95; 4SP 261; GC 415; 433, 434)

“After viewing the glory of the holy, Jesus raised the second veil and I passed into the holy of holies.

“In the holiest I saw an ark: …Above the ark, where the angels stood, was an exceeding bright glory, that appeared like a throne where God dwelt. Jesus stood by the ark, … In the ark was the golden pot of manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of stone which folded together like a book. Jesus opened them, and I saw the ten commandments written on them with the finger of God. … But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; … The holy Sabbath looked glorious—a halo of glory was all around it.” Early Writings , pp. 32, 33.

c. A Fulfillment In 1844 and Onwards, In the Experience of Believers, As They Followed Christ By Faith Into the Most Holy Place In Heaven. “… the judgment was set, and the books [books of record in heaven] were opened.” Dan 7:10

“Then he was carried down to the period of time when a view of the heavenly sanctuary should be given to God's people, when the veil would be parted, and by faith they would enter within the holy of holies . Moses knew something about the sanctuary in heaven; he understood the sacred ministrations connected with the holy place and the Most Holy. The significance of the typical service in the earthly sanctuary was made light and clear by the reflection of the Sun of Righteousness upon the types and symbols.” Manuscript Releases , Vol 10, p. 157. (Also: EW 255; 4SP 273, 274; SR 379, 380)

“Those who rejected the first message could not be benefited by the second; neither were they benefited by the midnight cry, which was to prepare them to enter with Jesus by faith into the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary . And by rejecting the two former messages, they have darkened their understanding that they can see no light in the third angel’s message, which shows the way into the most holy place. I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages, and therefore they have no knowledge of the way into the most holy , and they cannot be benefited by the intercession of Jesus there.”

d. A Partial Fulfillment In the “Orion” Vision. Even this significant “opening” could be listed here. “Dark, heavy clouds came up and clashed against each other. The atmosphere parted and rolled back [Rev 6:14]; then we could look up through the open space in Orion, whence came the voice of God. The Holy City will come down through that open space.” Early Writings , p. 41. The happening is future. But Ellen White was given the prophecy during the antitypical Day of Atonement with all its other “openings.” Increase of knowledge (Dan 12:4) during this same time period has brought powerful telescopes which literally enabled men to view the opening in Orion. Scientists such as Dr Robert Gentry speak powerfully to the “centre of the universe” discovery, showing the lie in the “Big Bang” theory of evolution, and telling of the polonium halos, the Creator’s precious signature in the rocks, the building blocks of this earth.

e. Possibly Other Providences.

3. PROPHECIES CONCERNING THE BRINGING FORTH OF THE EARTHLY TABLES OF LAW ARE OVERLOOKED.
“Nowhere is it said that the tables of the law will be brought forth by men as a result of finding them hidden in a cave [where, of course, the Ark of the Covenant was hidden before the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar. PK 453].” White Estate Document , p. 5.

The above White Estate statement I think is true enough. But without qualifying words it is misleading.

Symbols, metaphors, similes, parables and allegories also “speak”, and the Master Teacher instructs by means of them, not hesitating to give updates when necessary. Offended Scribes and Pharisees once argued thoughts such as: “Nowhere does the Old Testament prophesy that the Messiah would die as a result of being nailed to a cross, a Roman symbol of sun worship.” But by humbly piecing together all the details of the Old Testament prophecies, we can know this apparently truthful statement conveys a very false and misleading message.

There are also typical and symbolic ways of saying, “bringing forth from a cave.” Adventist thought leaders have often noted that the prophetic allegory of Revelation 12, as introduced in the previous verse by a view of an “opened” temple and “opened” Ark of the Testament in heaven—and so a bringing to view of the “opened” tables containing the Ten Commandments—is clearly an outworking and bringing to climax of the great prophecy of Genesis 3:15 and associated happenings at the beginning. There is a woman, her “seed”, a serpent or dragon, his seed, a war or “enmity between”, a promise of salvation for the woman and her seed (and therefore a prophecy that God will make an atonement for sin), and a prophecy of destruction for the dragon and his seed.

As I read and compare the following sampling of richly symbolic biblical expressions [largely built around a study of Revelation 11:19-12:17], as I see it they readily allow for a literal bringing forth of the earthly tables of the law, just before the close of probation, and Ellen White’s writings do not testify differently and should not be made to appear as though they do.

· “the voice of thy brother’s [Abel’s] blood crieth unto me from the ground … the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s [Jesus is here typified, but not completely] blood from thy hand” Gen 4:9-11;
· “the earth helped the woman” and “the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth” (Rev 12:15, 16. Is this not a prophecy also with several fulfillments, [Revelation 12 centers around Jesus’ incarnation, death and resurrection], culminating at the time of Satan’s endtime attempt to reign as king of this world? There seems to be a play on the thought that rivers of living water flow from God’s throne, as symbolized by the split and once-struck rock in the wilderness. When Satan seeks to rule as king of the one world order, the “water” flowing from him—his big mouth—seeks to bring death to the woman and her seed. Many at this time are led by angels to find shelter in caves of the earth, as in the 1260 wilderness years, and as later America became a haven of refuge to the persecuted of Europe. Then “the earth will open its mouth” and the saints will be “brought forth” at the voice of God just prior to the second coming. Will […] the tables of the law under the blood-stained mercy seat […] be brought forth from a cave for the world to view, when Sunday laws are enforced? It will certainly be somehow BECAUSE there is a blood-stained mercy seat over the tables containing the Ten Commandments. The Ark of the Testament is alluded to again in Rev 12:17);
· “rent curtain” – “rent rocks” (Matt 27:50-53; Ex 17:6; 1 Cor 10:4; etc);
· “the earth speaks”, “the earth cries out”, “the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel (Heb 11:4; 12:24);
· “the earth—the spirit, the water, and the blood—bears witness” (1 John 5:8; John 19:34).

With regard to the White Estate paper, “The Ark of the Covenant, Will It Be Found?” I have meant to share constructive comment and not to sound critical and unappreciative. We know we will all be learning and growing in knowledge through the ages of eternity, and there is not one of us, high or low, who has not needed and will not need to change a belief at some stage or other.

We see her under such attack, but no doubt if they crucified Jesus, Satan and his agents will be in a frenzy to destroy Jesus’ prophets and disciples. We ourselves can only praise God for the ministry and writings of Mrs Ellen White as prophet to the 2300 day prophecy, and guide to the remnant church. We know He is alive and in ultimate control of the affairs of this world, and His church.

Thank you for your attention, wishing you God’s richest blessings, and our earnest prayers are with the work of the Ellen G. White Estate….

Sincerely yours in Christ,
Vada ...

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69796
08/03/06 12:08 PM
08/03/06 12:08 PM
Ross  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5
Australia/New Zealand
Yes, Ron Wyatt did say that he found very old, dried human blood, and due to the location and circumstances that it was found, it could only have been the blood of Jesus. This was confirmed when it was analysed, i.e. it was determined to be human, yet it had unique properties. Specifically, the chromosomes indicated it belonged to a man with no biological human father, i.e. a virgin birth.

It would be easy to ignore this claim if it were the only discovery Ron told people about. We all know very well that there are many false teachers in the world today. And in fact when I first heard about this discovery back in the 1980s from a visiting preacher, I didn't take it very seriously. But later I learned that Ron Wyatt had made many other significant discoveries, the most of which can be investigated easily, and confirmed one way or the other. And people tend to forget that. Please don’t miss that point. While people question Ron’s claims in areas that can’t be confirmed, there are many than can be.

Yes, there are some of Ron’s findings that can’t easily be investigated without either large resources, or out-of-the-ordinary opportunities. Let me give you some examples of those.

(1) For instance, it is virtually impossible to visit Saudi Arabia to confirm Ron’s findings regarding Mt Sinai. It is a country with very restrictive entry conditions, and they do not issue tourist visas to visit Jebel El Lawz. Also the religio/political climate in Saudi Arabia makes it hostile towards discoveries that would help confirm Old Testament Jewish history. It would be great if archaeology was always treated as a pure science! But in reality politics has a large say in what goes on.

However, a number of people have been able to enter Saudi Arabia, specifically to investigate Ron’s claims, and they all return with the same testimony: That what is found at Jebel El Lawz indicates it is the real Mt Sinai. These include Bob Cornuke, Larry Williams and Jim & Penny Caldwell (who all feature on the documentary about Mt Sinai, called ‘Mountain of Fire’). There are others too, people that I know personally and have dived with in the Red Sea. These include Dr Lennart Möller, Viveka Ponten and Aaron Sen. They all feature on another excellent documentary, called ‘The Exodus Revealed’ (do a Google search to find it online). All of the above people will confirm that the site first visited by Ron Wyatt in 1984, and identified by him as Mt Sinai, is indeed the best candidate for the real Mt Sinai.

(2) To investigate the Noah’s Ark site more thoroughly would require more than simply scanning it, and this would requires some large resources. The Turkish Government has stipulated that for any serious excavation to take place, the site must first be housed. That is fair enough, because the weather extremes in that region would quickly ruin any exposed remains. But this means that without large backing, the site will remain buried, and only surface investigations are possible. With the advances in technology since the original radar scans were conducted, it would be wonderful to conduct more scans. But again, even this requires a budget larger than the average person can afford.

However, other sites presented by Ron Wyatt can be easily visited and investigated. Let me explain:

(1) Ron shared details of what he proposed were some of the grain storage pits in Egypt, used during the 7 year famine at the time of Joseph. When you visit Saqarra, they are exactly as he described, and makes a lot of sense that these were used for that purpose. In fact, when they were initially excavated decades ago, there were still remnants of grain in the bottom of them. Anyone can go to Egypt today and see these things. It is as Ron Wyatt described.

(2) Ron shared what could have been the remains of Sodom & Gomorrah and other cities of the plain. When you visit these sites, you do find mounds of white and gray material, very eroded, but in a number of places the unusual geometric shapes are still visible. The exposed top of these formations has formed a hard crust, but beneath it is crumbly and powdery. And embedded in the upper layers of these formations are pale, almost white, balls of sulphur, each inside a crusty shell. We took samples home to a lab, had them professionally analysed, and the findings match what we’d expect if Ron Wyatt was correct. The Bible records that the cities were reduced to ashes by burning brimstone (suphur). These mounds of material consist of calcium sulphate and calcium carbonate. If you incinerate limestone buildings with sulphur, that is what you’d expect to have left behind. What’s more the lab report specifically stated that the samples were very ‘clean’, with almost no other trace elements. That is consistent with ash from a furnace, not natural deposits. The sulphur balls proved to be not only very pure elemental sulphur (brimstone), but it was found that they had been ‘cooked’, i.e. exposed to high temperatures.

So I ask you – what would be expected to be left behind when an entire city, with stone buildings, was incinerated with fire and brimstone as described in Genesis 19? I put to you that these sites are exactly that, considering what we are told took place there 3900 years ago. And anyone can go to the Dead Sea and confirm this discovery today. It is exactly as Ron Wyatt described.

(3) Ron presented a location in the Gulf of Aqaba for the Red Sea Crossing site. This is consistent with an Exodus route leading to the real Mt Sinai in Saudi Arabia. The Jewish historian, Josephus, gives details that confirm this Red Sea crossing site, and Jebel El Lawz, as being the correct sites. Our dives trips have confirmed (a) unusual shapes in the coral on the sea bed off Nuweiba, consistent with coral encrusted chariot remains on the sea bed, (b) remnants of metal objects in this coral, by using metal detectors, (c) coral encrusted human and horse bones, and (d) our depth soundings have revealed a sea-bed slope that would allow multitudes of people to cross from one shore to the other very easily if the water was removed. Despite the gradual slope, the water is still reaches a depth of about ½ mile in the middle, which explains why not one Egyptian survived when the water came crashing back in (see Psa 136:15, Psa 106:11).

At this point, let me add a very important note. The best evidence for any genuine Biblical site is not the artefacts found, but how well it matches what Inspiration says on a subject. Regarding the Red Sea crossing site, it is the ONLY location on the Red Sea that fits Inspiration. Even if no remains had yet been found, it would still be the Red Sea crossing site based on what the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy tell us.
Consider the details in these quotes:

From Succoth, their journey was over barren hills and desolate plains (4T 21), a dreary, desertlike expanse (PP 283) on a route called "the way of the wilderness of the Red Sea" (Exo 13:18). They then turned (Exo 14:2) off the usual course into a valley hemmed in by mountains (RH 8-Oct-1903, p.2). The way grew strange and perplexing (ST 10-Mar-1881 p.5). They followed a rocky defile (PP 283.2) down to the Red Sea walled in on each side (4T 21.2). Weary and hungry, they reach the Red Sea, still walled in right and left by ranges of impassable mountains (ST 10-Mar-1881, p.5). To the south a rugged mountain obstructs their progress (ST 1-Apr-1880 p.9). There seemed no way of escape (RH 8-Jul-1890, p.1). There, in this mountain fastness beside the sea (PP 290.1), more than two million Israelites (PP 333.3) had sufficient space to set up camp (RH, 8-Oct-1903, p.3). The Hebrews were in a wilderness that was "out of Egypt" (Exo 14:11). The Pharaoh hearing of their location, exclaims "They are entangled in the land, the wilderness hath shut them in" (Exo 14:3) and sets out after them to compel them to return (RH, July 8, 1890 par. 1). Despite being surrounded and "walled in by impassible mountains" in a mountain fastness, when the Egyptian army was approaching, the Hebrews saw "in the distance" the flashing armor and moving chariots "betokening the advance guard of a great army." (PP 283.5).

If one was to go to Egypt, and follow all these clues to find the Red Sea crossing site, you will only arrive at Nuweiba on the Gulf of Aqaba. Interestingly, Ron Wyatt told us that it was through reading some of these descriptions from Ellen White that he found the right location.

So anyone can go to the Sinai Peninsula and investigate this discovery today. It is both exactly as Ron Wyatt described, and exactly what we should find based on what all should know from studying our books.

Warm regards

Ross Patterson

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69797
08/14/06 09:50 AM
08/14/06 09:50 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

We agree wholeheartedly with Redfog that the Answers in Genesis (AiG) website would be worth exploring and provide some wonderful evidence in favour of a literal six day creation, and young age for this earth.

But the interdenominational AiG ministry, like any other on earth, is not infallible. The seventh day Sabbath, for instance, despite its being a major “answer in Genesis”, is still opposed (some use stronger terms) by AiG. We can always hope and pray for better things, but over the years many have sent material to AiG to explain the Sabbath doctrine, to little apparent avail.

In regard to the discovery claims of Ron Wyatt, as supported by Jonathan Gray, blatant errors in reporting (including errors in the now oft-quoted article, “Amazing Ark Expose”, Creation Ex Nihilo, Sept. – Nov.1992) have remained uncorrected, this also despite repeated appeals. Some describe the AiG attitude to the Wyatt discovery claims as “obsessively hostile.”

John Mackay, who also gives a very able defence of the literal creation story and lectures around the world, was once managing director of this organization (or Creation Science Foundation, as it was once known). Some years ago he resigned for reasons of conscience and formed the rival ministry, Creation Research Centre. See www.creationresearch.net. This is another website worth exploring. The same spirit of hostility is said to have been directed by AiG against John Mackay’s ministry. Some evidence of this fact comes through in the “Amazing Ark Expose” article as mentioned above. John Mackay, we understand, maintains a neutral or more open-minded position on the Wyatt discovery claims.

Indeed, value the AiG website for its witness to the literal six day creation. But in our opinion the genuine lover of truth must look beyond AiG to find the balanced picture on the subject of the Wyatt discovery claims. One source which ought to be checked out is the book by Jonathan Gray, DISCOVERIES: Questions Answered. For ordering details see the website: www.beforeus.com/shopcart_hc.html

“And Gideon made an ephod … which thing became a snare unto Gideon, and to his house.” Judges 8:27. “When the armies of the Lord have gained a signal victory, Satan will redouble his efforts to overthrow the work of God… those [like Gideon] who are placed in the highest positions may lead astray, especially if they feel that there is no danger. The wisest err; the strongest grow weary… It is a solemn thought that the removal of one safeguard from the conscience, the failure to fulfil one good resolution, the formation of one wrong habit, may result not only in our own ruin, but in the ruin of those who have put confidence in us…” Conflict and Courage, p. 129.

The Record (SDA Church paper for the South Pacific Division) of July 1, 2006, carries the news article, “Thames outreach sees 42 choose Sabbath.” It tells of a very successful mission program conducted by Jonathan Gray for the North New Zealand Conference. Jonathan has been one of Ron Wyatt’s most prominent supporters. His first few Thames mission lectures dwelt upon Ron’s major discoveries. Mission interests are being nurtured in particular by local pastor, Les Worsley. We understand that so much interest in the message has been generated at Thames that the church is now bursting at the seams, still growing, and the Conference has called an assistant pastor to the area.

We have further heard that several Sabbath’s ago, a Union President preached the Sabbath sermon at Thames. At the end, seeing all the interest and experiencing a string of rather arresting providences, he is reported to have said something to the effect, “I have received several protest letters as a result of the Record report on Brother Gray’s mission effort in Thames, and I have not known how to respond. Now I do. If God is endorsing this work—as the evidence clearly indicates He is—then so must we.”

I have just telephoned Jonathan and he says he is willing to make available FREE OF CHARGE to anyone who asks, an e-book on the Wyatt discoveries. For contact details see the website: www.beforeus.com

Vada

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69798
09/28/06 01:11 AM
09/28/06 01:11 AM
Will  Offline
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Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Vada,
I emailed Jonathan 2 weeks ago inquiring and asking for the free ebook, he said that it would be the next email out and sent in an attachment, but instead my next email was a newsletter, and I have emailed him regarding the free ebook again (twice now) and will see what happens.
I was very excited about this cause I find this type of material to be encouraging, but am very disappointed at how long it has taken for this gentleman to get back to me on this.
Hopefully it will not be the same material which is found on the internet itself, but exited all the same.
God Bless,
Will

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69799
09/29/06 06:05 AM
09/29/06 06:05 AM
Will  Offline
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BC, Canada
I got it last night!! I will be reading this over the weekend
God Bless,
Will

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? #69800
10/02/06 06:58 AM
10/02/06 06:58 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Will,

Greetings! Thanks for the friendly Hello. Glad you finally received the e-book. I have not seen or read this book myself, so do not know what you have received. On the telephone on Sunday (I live in Australia, Jonathan Gray lives in North New Zealand) Jonathan said he thought he had sent you the e-book two weeks earlier, when you first asked, but he must have made a mistake somewhere with the technology. He was sorry about the delay.

Because Jonathan has written a fairly widely known and controversial book called Ark of the Covenant , because there has been a lot of misunderstanding and misrepresentation, and because it is still true that we can judge people and teachings “by their fruits”, perhaps I could here try to tell some NZ news. I will do my best in haste from afar, but am sure a first hand account from someone in the know in North New Zealand would read much better.

1. 29 September 2006. A news report came over New Zealand’s main TV station last Friday evening, showing a large billboard Jonathan has erected near Thames. See http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/838558?bandwidth=128k

We have seen a copy of this telecast. The billboard offers a $1 million reward to anyone who can find a Bible text which proves Sunday keeping. Jonathan was interviewed and said he was very confident he would never have to pay out. The newscaster said they had asked the local [Sunday-keeping] ministers for comment, but they have declined to become involved. Jonathan’s recent mission in Thames, involving introductory meetings on the major discovery claims of Ron Wyatt, have apparently generated much discussion around the city, and the ministers are not happy about the loss of members in some instances. Other ministers have themselves turned and accepted the Sabbath, one or two with many of their congregation joining them. Jonathan says he has been receiving many phonecalls as a result of the billboard.

2. Sabbath, 30 September 2006. Ten persons were baptized at the Thames SDA Church, as a result of Jonathan’s mission program and the nurturing efforts of the local pastors. About 150 persons were present, a big crowd considering the size of the little church before the mission program commenced. The presence of God was very evident in the proceedings. Many others are preparing for baptism. Somewhere along the way, a plaque expressing thanks and appreciation to Jonathan was presented to him, and he was apparently deeply moved by this.

3. Sabbath, 23 September 2006. An important meeting of the Maori people of New Zealand convened. Their queen had passed away just a couple of weeks earlier, generating some unrest. The Maoris have been agitating for the last 166 years without much progress in achieving their aims. Five persons from the Thames group still studying under Jonathan and the local pastors, were providentially left in charge of this meeting. One of these persons (a European) is a retired Hebrew scholar, another a member of the Privy Council. Secular and political concerns (some seeing violence and confrontation as the way to achieve their goals) were laid aside, and instead they gave lectures showing that elements of Maori customs and legends indicated they had their roots in the Hebrew people of the Bible. Instead of stirring up the spirit of violence and confrontation, the speakers of the day sought to show the Maori people that the cause of their problems was that they had lost their spiritual roots. The speakers appealed to the Maori people to become connected to the Creator God, to focus on higher standards of family living, and on keeping holy the seventh day Sabbath. The leading Maori spokesperson, an engineer, has already become a committed seventh day Sabbath keeper.

That all sounds like a big PRAISE THE LORD to me!

Blessings,

Vada

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Mountain Man] #112235
04/24/09 10:08 PM
04/24/09 10:08 PM
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Bobryan  Offline
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Georgia, USA
First of all - I "prefer" to believe that Ron Wyatt did find what he claims. But I have no real proof. I have see no compelling artifacts nor have I seen any expert witnesses confirming his findings, nor is there a vide of the finding of the ark of the Covenant etc. So for me -- it is just a preference short of getting some divine revelation -- which of course I would not object to at all.

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Sister White seems to say that the commandments contained within the earthly ark will not be revealed until after the close of probation, when God Himself holds them open in the sky for all to see. I doubt finding them ahead of this time would have any impact on Sunday keepers. They already know what is written on them, but they believe the sabbath was changed to Sunday.

GC 639
While these words of holy trust ascend to God, the clouds sweep back, and the starry heavens are seen, unspeakably glorious in contrast with the black and angry firmament on either side. The glory of the celestial city streams from the gates ajar. Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together. Says the prophet: "The heavens shall declare His righteousness: for God is judge Himself." Psalm 50:6. That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the rule of judgment. The hand opens the tables, and there are seen the precepts of the Decalogue, traced as with a pen of fire. The words are so plain that all can read them. Memory is aroused, the darkness of superstition and heresy is swept from every mind, and God's ten words, brief, comprehensive, and authoritative, are presented to the view of all the inhabitants of the earth. {GC 639.1}


In the statement above - the point is that God's law will be seen in the sky - as will the hand of God be seen there. However it does not say that the two tablets from Sinai will be flying up in the sky.

in Christ,

Bob

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Jan] #112236
04/24/09 10:22 PM
04/24/09 10:22 PM
B
Bobryan  Offline
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Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Jan
Some interesting quotes from the White Estate about the Ark - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/ark.html#The%20Law%20Kept

quote:
"Before the temple was destroyed, God made known to a few of His faithful servants the fate of the temple, which was the pride of Israel, and which they regarded with idolatry, while they were sinning against God. He also revealed to them the captivity of Israel. These righteous men, just before the destruction of the temple, removed the sacred ark containing the tables of stone, and with mourning and sadness, secreted it in a cave where it was to be hid from the people of Israel, because of their sins, and was to be no more restored to them. That sacred ark is yet hid. It has never been disturbed since it was secreted."--4SG 114, 115 (1864);1SP 414 (1870); SR 195.
[/quote]

Good proof that it was hid -- and when and that as of Ellen White's day -- it was still untouched.

Quote:

quote:
"The holy law of the ten commandments, written on tables of stone by the finger of God, and placed in the ark, is the standard of righteousness. Before the obedient and the disobedient it will appear in the last great day, and all the wicked will be convicted. They will see that their actions proceeded from a depraved character. They will see that the part they acted served to carry on the rebellion begun in the heavenly courts. They will see all the cruelty and all the wickedness that have dishonored their Creator and brought about the wretchedness that fills the world."--Ms 5, 1904 (13MR 381).


quote:
"The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, safely hidden from the human family. But in God's appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath."--Ms 122, 1901 (1BC 1109).


good proof that at some point -- on the last Great Day - God will have His Law revealed and that it will actually be the tablets of stone of Sinai.

Quote:

"When God's temple in heaven is opened, what a triumphant time that will be for all who have been faithful and true! In the temple will be seen the ark of the testament in which were placed the two tables of stone, on which are written God's law. These tables of stone will be brought forth from their hiding place, and on them will be seen the ten commandments engraved by the finger of God. These tables of stone now lying in the ark of the testament will be a convincing testimony to the truth and binding claims of God's law."--Letter 47, 1902 (7BC 972).



Since this is "God's Temple in heaven" where the law and stones are seen - it must not be the same event where the wicked are viewing the law on stone and being convicted as in the previous quote.

in Christ,

Bob

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #171754
02/10/15 07:34 PM
02/10/15 07:34 PM
K
kland  Offline
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I've heard some promoting the Ark was under Christ's cross, the ground broke, His blood ran down through the dry crack and onto the Ark. They claim there was two atonements made on the Ark and the other one involved blood and water just as came out of Christ's side.

Disregarding any reason for such an atonement, try as I might, I cannot find any two atonements on the ark, nor a mix of blood and water. Does anyone know about this?

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #171773
02/12/15 05:45 AM
02/12/15 05:45 AM
dedication  Offline
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According to the story ---

"In August of 1978, Ron Wyatt was walking along Gordon's Calvary Escarpment in the Garden Tomb in Jerusalem, talking with a local authority about Roman antiquities. Without warning, Ron's left hand pointed to a site there and his mouth said, "That's Jeremiah's Grotto and the Ark of the Covenant is in there."


"Miraculously" he was given permission to do some digging.

Ron Wyatt discovered four cross holes, one set a little higher than the others, which he believed was where Christ's cross stood, and the two thieves would have been on to of the lower crosses.
Under the upper cross hole there was what looked like a crack created by an earthquake.

After much digging Wyatt apparently found several artifacts from the temple including the ark of the covenant in cavern under the cross -- and apparently blood had run through the crack and down onto the ark's lid.

THE BLOOD AND WATER:

The report has this to say:

"1John 5:8-11 says the water and the blood of Christ were in the earth at the time of writing, approximately 35 years after the cross. "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." Furthermore it says that this water and blood is the testimony, or witness of God to the world, testifying to us that His Son died, "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son...And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. "

http://www.covenantkeepers.co.uk/

At present, I don't know of any sanctuary ceremony of water and blood on the ark.


Also Wyatt's findings have some large ? behind them. The biggest is that there is no concrete evidence that he found the ark.

Secondly, Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary with His Blood to work as our high priest.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #171774
02/12/15 11:49 AM
02/12/15 11:49 AM
Rosangela  Offline
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Precisely. The blood was sprinkled over the ark on the Day of Atonement, and we don't believe the antitypical Day of Atonement occurred on the day Christ died, in 31 A.D.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #171781
02/12/15 03:44 PM
02/12/15 03:44 PM
APL  Offline
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Western, USA
Wyatt was a fraud - - let's just be clear...


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #171783
02/12/15 04:38 PM
02/12/15 04:38 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Thanks. I want to be sure no one knew of a place in the Bible which speaks of two ceremonies on the ark before I conclude there isn't. They assert so confidently, speak so continuously, leaving no space for thought and consideration of what they just said.

I found a reference to this on the site:
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Do you think they intend sprinkling the "book" is the same as sprinkling the "ark"?
Sounds more like someone doing their best to support Wyatt's claims. Especially when you read some various commentaries about whether the "book" was actually sprinkled or not.


I'm still astounded by Wyatt's claim of the chromosomes. I've often speculated mused about it myself. But with humans, having one less chromosome, one extra one, or even pieces of chromosomes causes all kinds of problems. He comes across as an amateur (guess he is!) who knows a little bit about genetics, but not very much who fantasizes about ideas without understanding what it would mean. He must have thought Jesus would only have half the human chromosomes, but someone pointed out to him that then He would be female. So he must have then said, that God contributed one human Y chromosome giving a total of 24. Fantastic. Except, if God could have given one human chromosome, why not the full complement? Wasn't Jesus fully human and fully divine?

Mental attempts at gymnastics like this is what have made me realize that Wyatt has something lacking. Thanks for the link. It has some videos I'll try to download and watch. Not that I'm interested in him, but want to confirm my assessment of him. I'm guessing he's a fast talker, one who doesn't take no for an answer, and will talk over others. Could be wrong, but guess I'll find out.

By the way, I remember the arkfiles net from the link being where I had heard this. Anyone know anything about these people?

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #171814
02/13/15 10:18 PM
02/13/15 10:18 PM
APL  Offline
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The subject of Ron Wyatt is what I started writing about on this forum. jamesonofthunder was/is a strong follower of Wyatt and damned by anyone that does not believe him or Wyatt. I have a long time friend that has written of his own direct personal experience with Ron Wyatt. His written testimony can (again) be found here: http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #171816
02/13/15 10:25 PM
02/13/15 10:25 PM
APL  Offline
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More on the Wyatt fraud: http://ldolphin.org/wyatt.html


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: APL] #171821
02/14/15 02:35 PM
02/14/15 02:35 PM
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JAK  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
jamesonofthunder was/is a strong follower of Wyatt and damned by anyone that does not believe him or Wyatt.

Originally Posted By: APL
Wyatt was a fraud - - let's just be clear...


***** STAFF EDIT *****

Last edited by Daryl; 11/10/15 11:51 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate content.

"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #172080
02/25/15 06:19 PM
02/25/15 06:19 PM
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kland  Offline
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Thanks for the links. I also searched and found other things. Now I may be biased against Wyatt, I may have already formed an opinion of him before I actually heard and saw him on video, so my view may be tainted. One nice thing I can say about watching and hearing him is that he sounds .... confident.

But....he strikes me as someone who knows everything about everything and has the speaking ability to pull it off. He may be sincere, but that may be sincerely wrong, or he may have what one suggested is a disease in which he cannot distinguish between reality and imagination. I heard a segment where he had a question and answer period, and he came across as having had lots of people who had criticized him.

The question I was listening to had to do with the blood samples. He still strikes me as not really understanding what he's talking about. It wouldn't surprise me that originally he said they got chromosome counts from the blood cells. When someone criticized him, he then changed it to white blood cells. In the answer, he comes across condescending by saying, "no way I know you can get a chromosome count out of dead blood". Then he gives details on how it's done. Someone must have educated him on reality. Then he makes up more things, keep talking about "dead blood". Then adds some dramatic emotional appeal to his answer. So authoritative. So confident. An expert in presentation.

In an interview with Colin Standish, even Danny Shelton said people good at discerning people thought he was telling the truth. Not from 3ABN, but some of the board members personally even gave 10K to Wyatt to buy equipment. However, they found out Wyatt was a fraud. Shelton said it eventually occurred to him that Wyatt knew there was no ark down there. Wyatt is good at getting money, though. Repeating the process over and over with different groups.

Diseased? Fraud? Or a mixture of the two, I don't know. Almost like he deluded himself, realized it, but thought it was a good story and went with it. But as one had asked, why are so many so gullible with no evidence? It's like people want it so much to be true, they'll believe anything.

I know some who are being suckered in by it. How do you help them?

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Gregory] #173403
05/17/15 07:28 AM
05/17/15 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Gregory
Re: "Everything that can be checked out is exactly as he says, and when considered carefully, is exactly what one would expect to find based on the details in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy."

Oh!

There are others who take the position that much of what he stated does not check out.

The above is typically made by those who have studied in the field in which he wrote. That applies to each of your specific examples. For example, you mention the outline of a large ship in the area of Ararat: There is much that has been written on that which is said by many to show that what he has stated does not check out.

Allow me to give another example. Prior to his death, he proclaimed on the Web that he had discovered the living shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and one could go on the Internet and look at a microscopic slide of what he claimed to be that living shed blood. I accessed that view. What he claimed to be be proof of life was clearly Brownian Movement. Brownian Movement has never been proof of life. Only a person ignorant of what one sees under a microscope would make such a statement.

NOTES:

Yes, I am experienced at looking at blood under a microscope.

Yes, I am aware that following Rom's death, the Internet claim of the discovery of the living shed blood of Christ has been modified.


I have never accepted what Ron wyatt said about the Ark of the Covenant or Noah's Ark. George Vandeman checked out that boat looking ground long before Ron Wyatt was there and it wasn't even a real boat. I never accepted what Ron Wyatt said about the blood sample because I never understood the 1 male chromosome he mentioned.

I would like to know if more information can be gathered about this blood sample though, just in case some information is left behind for us.

But, I do believe Ron Wyatt's explanation of the Exodus and the location of Mt. Sinai is by far the best explanation. I personally do believe these two points.

I have always believed that the Dead Sea was probably the location of Sodom and Gomorrah just because of the salt content of that body of water and Lot's wife being turned to salt.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #173490
05/20/15 03:18 PM
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Before you can get more information about the blood sample, you first have to believe there was a blood sample.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #173837
06/02/15 02:38 AM
06/02/15 02:38 AM
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Personally, I do agree that Ron Wyatt's understanding go the Exodus and the location of Mt. Sinai is by far the most Biblical understanding available.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Alchemy] #173839
06/02/15 03:12 AM
06/02/15 03:12 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Personally, I do agree that Ron Wyatt's understanding go the Exodus and the location of Mt. Sinai is by far the most Biblical understanding available.
And unproven as are all of Wyatt's claims.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: APL] #173852
06/02/15 01:30 PM
06/02/15 01:30 PM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Personally, I do agree that Ron Wyatt's understanding go the Exodus and the location of Mt. Sinai is by far the most Biblical understanding available.
And unproven as are all of Wyatt's claims.


What do you mean unproven?

Just walk through the story in the Bible and it makes much more sense crossing on the other side of the Sinai peninsula. Also, the Bible says in Galatians that Mt. Sinai is in Arabia.

What proof is missing? Also, what do you believe and what proof do you have for your belief?

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #173861
06/02/15 04:33 PM
06/02/15 04:33 PM
APL  Offline
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Unproven - Noah's ark, the ark of the covenant. And where is THE proof that the that Mt. Sinai is exactly where Wyatt said it is and where are the artifacts? Unproven. Is "Arabia" in the Bible the same location that we think of today? Perhaps. Why is the Sinai peninsula called Sinai? Was the Sinai peninsula considered part of Arabia in Biblical times?

Personally, I would not be surprised that the sojourn in the wilderness was in what we call Arabia today. But where is the evidence? Nothing Wyatt has produced has convinced me that he was right on anything. I heard the man in person, he was very persuasive. So was Satan. I have a friend that went with Wyatt to Israel years ago to find the ark of the covenant. I'll put it bluntly, Wyatt was a fraud.

http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html



Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #173863
06/02/15 04:48 PM
06/02/15 04:48 PM
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Where is the proof? Why the same place that the Euphrates today is the same as flowed out of the garden of Eden!

If it's the same name it must be the same thing! I mean, you don't think people would be familiar with a name and use it for other things do you? Such as features on the moon, New "England", etc......

What's bad is that Wyatt may or may not have made some actual discoveries. But he is such a fraud that any truth he may have discovered is completely swallowed up by his fraud.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #173903
06/04/15 02:27 AM
06/04/15 02:27 AM
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Well, you guys can think what you want about Ron Wyatt. But, we need to remember it's not about him.

Mount Sinai being located where St. Catherine's Monastery is doesn't make any sense to me. I don't see any proof for that!

So, what do you believe about the Exodus and what proof do you have?

BTW, I don't agree with Ron Wyatt on Noah's Ark or on the Ark of the Covenant. But, his explanation of the Exodus just makes the most Biblical sense.

Last edited by Alchemy; 06/04/15 02:28 AM.
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #173950
06/05/15 05:48 PM
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Where the ark is right now seems not to be a great concern. There will come a day when we will see it.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Johann] #174004
06/07/15 05:27 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Johann
Where the ark is right now seems not to be a great concern. There will come a day when we will see it.

1. "The ark of the covenant" (AoC) is NOT important. It was just a cedar box overlaid with gold containing two stone tablets (1 Kings 8:9). When Israel had gone after their golden calf in the desert, Moses simply threw down the tablets and broke them to pieces (which by all accounts were IMMENSELY HOLIER than any furniture, since it had the very handwriting of God) (Exod. 32:19). Therefore, it is subtle idolatry due to ignorance which causes people to suppose that the AoC -- a thing built by the hand of man -- was SO IMMENSELY SACRED that God could and, somehow or the other, would not allow it to be taken away or destroyed. When Jesus cleansed the temple, he called it "MY FATHER'S HOUSE"; but when he had departed, he said instead, "Behold, YOUR HOUSE is left to you, desolate" (Mat. 23:37-38).

2. What does all of this mean? It means that the temple and everything in and with it are holy and sacred and enduring only as long as the people who worship there are holy before God. Otherwise, they all burn (temple, furniture and people) and are never found again.(Mal. 4:1) The AoC spoken of in Rev. 11:19 is not a literal AoC in a literal temple, but a reference to THE SIGNIFICANCE of the AoC to those who can see it.

3. For those who are wise, those unencumbered by heavy SDA doctrinal chains, if in the old covenant the Decalogue were written on tablets of stone and placed in the AoC, then seeing that in the new covenant the law is written ON YOUR HEART (Jer. 31:33), tell me then ... where is the place of your heart, hmmmmm? (See John 4:21-24 for help in answering)

///

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: James Peterson] #174010
06/08/15 04:54 AM
06/08/15 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson

1. "The ark of the covenant" (AoC) is NOT important. It was just a cedar box overlaid with gold containing two stone tablets (1 Kings 8:9). When Israel had gone after their golden calf in the desert, Moses simply threw down the tablets and broke them to pieces (which by all accounts were IMMENSELY HOLIER than any furniture, since it had the very handwriting of God) (Exod. 32:19). Therefore, it is subtle idolatry due to ignorance which causes people to suppose that the AoC -- a thing built by the hand of man -- was SO IMMENSELY SACRED that God could and, somehow or the other, would not allow it to be taken away or destroyed. When Jesus cleansed the temple, he called it "MY FATHER'S HOUSE"; but when he had departed, he said instead, "Behold, YOUR HOUSE is left to you, desolate" (Mat. 23:37-38).


True the box itself had no "holiness" in and of itself.
What made the ark of the covenant holy was God's presence.
And God made His presence manifest particularly over the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant.

Exodus 40:34 Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud had settled on it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

Chron. 7:7 Now when Solomon had finished praying, ... the glory of the Lord filled the house. 2 The priests could not enter into the house of the Lord because the glory of the Lord filled the Lord’s house. 3 All the sons of Israel, seeing the fire come down and the glory of the Lord upon the house, bowed down on the pavement with their faces to the ground..

Exodus 25:22 "There I will meet with you; and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak to you about all that I will give you in commandment for the sons of Israel.

Lev.16:2 The LORD said to Moses: "Tell your brother Aaron that he shall not enter at any time into the holy place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, or he will die; for I will appear in the cloud over the mercy seat.


God's presence was manifested by an intense light which at times filled the whole sanctuary, but which settled between the two cherubs over the mercy seat on the ark of the covenant.


Originally Posted By: James P
2. What does all of this mean? It means that the temple and everything in and with it are holy and sacred and enduring only as long as the people who worship there are holy before God.



It was not the people who made anything holy. Only God can make anything holy. His presence makes things (and people) holy. However, when the people turned against God, His presence reluctantly departed, as we see in Ezekiel.

10:3 Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, and the cloud filled the inner court.
Ezekiel 10:4 Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, [and stood] over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD'S glory.
10:15 And the cherubims were lifted up.
10:18 Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house,
11:22 Then did the cherubims lift up their wings, and the wheels beside them; and the glory of the God of Israel [was] over them above.
11:23 And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which [is] on the east side of the city.


Of course these were REAL cherubim, the ones carved on the ark were only representatives of the real. But God's presence in the Most Holy Place was real. And there in Ezekiel we see that presence leaving the sanctuary prior to its destruction when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians.

Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Otherwise, they all burn (temple, furniture and people) and are never found again.(Mal. 4:1)


True the temple burned and many people died as well, but that is not proof that all the furniture burned as well. The Babylonians took much of the temple's things to Babylon.

We read in Daniel that King Belshazzar had access to items taken from God's sanctuary.
Daniel 5:3 Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which [was] at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them.

These people had no reverence for God, and their use of the things from God's temple was a serious insult to God.

As to the ark --
We have no statement anywhere in scripture that the ark of the covenant was destroyed. So what happened to the ark? Was it taken by Nebuchadnezzar? Was it destroyed with the city? Or was it removed and hidden safely away?

We do have a precedent in scripture that might give an answer.

Years earlier Pharaoh Shishak of Egypt raided the temple during the reign of Solomon’s son Rehoboam.

2 Chron. 12:9 So Shishak king of Egypt came up against Jerusalem, and took away the treasures of the house of the LORD

But apparently someone (the Levites) managed to hide the ark somewhere as it was no longer in the temple, but the Levites knew where it was. Years later when king Josiah reinstituted the Jewish feasts (the Passover) he asked the Levites to place the ark of the covenant in the temple again.

2 Chron. 35:1 Moreover Josiah kept a Passover unto the LORD in Jerusalem... 35:3 And said unto the Levites that taught all Israel, which were holy unto the LORD, Put the holy ark in the house which Solomon the son of David king of Israel did build

So it is very possible that the same was done before the Babylonians raided and destroyed the temple --

The non-canonical book of 2 Maccabees reports that just prior to the Babylonian invasion, Jeremiah

"prompted by a divine message gave orders that the tent of meeting and the ark should go with him. Then he went away to the mountain from top of which Moses saw God's promised land. When he reached the mountain, Jeremiah found a cave-dwelling; he carried the tent, the ark, and the incense altar into it, then blocked up the entrance. Some of his companions came to mark out the way, but were unable to find it. when Jeremiah learnt of this he reprimanded them. The place shall remain unknown, he said, until God finally gathers his people together and shows mercy to them. then the Lord will bring these things to light again, and the glory of the Lord will appear with the cloud, as it was seen both in the time of Moses and when Solomon prayed that the temple might be worthily consecrated. (2 Maccabees 2:4-6)




Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: kland] #174015
06/08/15 08:36 AM
06/08/15 08:36 AM
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kland wrote; " Except, if God could have given one human chromosome, why not the full complement? Wasn't Jesus fully human and fully divine?"

We really don't understand how God did this, but Jesus was conceived from the Holy Spirit! So, I don't see how we can know how this was done.

I am one who doesn't agree with Ron Wyatt on a lot of things, but I don't think he is a fraud. I can't understand how Ron Wyatt thought he had found Noah's Ark when George Vandemann had been there already. But he did.

So, I don't believe he is a fraud, but very confused about what to expect.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: APL] #174016
06/08/15 08:46 AM
06/08/15 08:46 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Personally, I do agree that Ron Wyatt's understanding go the Exodus and the location of Mt. Sinai is by far the most Biblical understanding available.
And unproven as are all of Wyatt's claims.


I disagree completely on this point.

It surely can't be on the Sinai peninsula by St, Catherine's Monastery, unless you have some proof to support that idea!

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: dedication] #174024
06/08/15 02:09 PM
06/08/15 02:09 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
True the temple burned and many people died as well, but that is not proof that all the furniture burned as well. The Babylonians took much of the temple's things to Babylon. We read in Daniel that King Belshazzar had access to items taken from God's sanctuary. Daniel 5:3 Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which [was] at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them. These people had no reverence for God, and their use of the things from God's temple was a serious insult to God.

That is not because God was preserving anything inherently holy; but a sign to the Jews that they were going to be preserved in Babylon and return again to Jerusalem until the coming of the Messiah (Dan. 9:25-27)

Originally Posted By: dedication
As to the ark -- We have no statement anywhere in scripture that the ark of the covenant was destroyed. So what happened to the ark? Was it taken by Nebuchadnezzar? Was it destroyed with the city? Or was it removed and hidden safely away? We do have a precedent in scripture that might give an answer. Years earlier Pharaoh Shishak of Egypt raided the temple during the reign of Solomon’s son Rehoboam. 2 Chron. 12:9 So Shishak king of Egypt came up against Jerusalem, and took away the treasures of the house of the LORD

But apparently someone (the Levites) managed to hide the ark somewhere as it was no longer in the temple, but the Levites knew where it was. Years later when king Josiah reinstituted the Jewish feasts (the Passover) he asked the Levites to place the ark of the covenant in the temple again. 2 Chron. 35:1 Moreover Josiah kept a Passover unto the LORD in Jerusalem... 35:3 And said unto the Levites that taught all Israel, which were holy unto the LORD, Put the holy ark in the house which Solomon the son of David king of Israel did build

It was a NEWLY MADE ark of the covenant. The Temple in which Jesus walked was not the temple that Solomon built, but a NEWLY MADE temple, one he nevertheless fiercely referred to as, "My Father's House ..."

Originally Posted By: dedication
So it is very possible that the same was done before the Babylonians raided and destroyed the temple. The non-canonical book of 2 Maccabees reports that just prior to the Babylonian invasion, Jeremiah "prompted by a divine message gave orders that the tent of meeting and the ark should go with him. Then he went away to the mountain from top of which Moses saw God's promised land. When he reached the mountain, Jeremiah found a cave-dwelling; he carried the tent, the ark, and the incense altar into it, then blocked up the entrance. Some of his companions came to mark out the way, but were unable to find it. when Jeremiah learnt of this he reprimanded them. The place shall remain unknown, he said, until God finally gathers his people together and shows mercy to them. then the Lord will bring these things to light again, and the glory of the Lord will appear with the cloud, as it was seen both in the time of Moses and when Solomon prayed that the temple might be worthily consecrated. (2 Maccabees 2:4-6)

"Possible"? There is a reason why those books are "non-canonical". But, by the way, what of #3?

Originally Posted By: James Peterson
3. For those who are wise, those unencumbered by heavy SDA doctrinal chains, if in the old covenant the Decalogue were written on tablets of stone and placed in the AoC, then seeing that in the new covenant the law is written ON YOUR HEART (Jer. 31:33), tell me then ... where is the place of your heart, hmmmmm? (See John 4:21-24 for help in answering)

///

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #174033
06/08/15 10:33 PM
06/08/15 10:33 PM
Johann  Offline
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When Ron Wyatt visited Denmark about 15 or 20 years ago I was living there. I did not attend his meetings, but two of my friends did. They told me he showed some videos of his finding, but they were so dark and unclear that nothing could be recognized. They got some of his material which, on further examination, proved nothing. Both of those friends were editors used to evaluate such things, but it seems like they discovered nothing to write about.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Alchemy] #174041
06/09/15 05:52 AM
06/09/15 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Personally, I do agree that Ron Wyatt's understanding go the Exodus and the location of Mt. Sinai is by far the most Biblical understanding available.
And unproven as are all of Wyatt's claims.


I disagree completely on this point.

It surely can't be on the Sinai peninsula by St, Catherine's Monastery, unless you have some proof to support that idea!
Proof - still not absolute proof. You say there is proof? You disagree completely, so you must have proof. What is it? It is not Wyatt, he has shown himself to be not trustworthy repeatedly, so where is the PROOF.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: APL] #174054
06/09/15 12:43 PM
06/09/15 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Personally, I do agree that Ron Wyatt's understanding go the Exodus and the location of Mt. Sinai is by far the most Biblical understanding available.
And unproven as are all of Wyatt's claims.


I disagree completely on this point.

It surely can't be on the Sinai peninsula by St, Catherine's Monastery, unless you have some proof to support that idea!
Proof - still not absolute proof. You say there is proof? You disagree completely, so you must have proof. What is it? It is not Wyatt, he has shown himself to be not trustworthy repeatedly, so where is the PROOF.


Again, if you follow the Biblical account, crossing the Red Sea at the point to land on the Arabian peninsula makes the most sense. The Israelites would have needed to cross there to avoid the Philistines for instance.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #174079
06/09/15 08:16 PM
06/09/15 08:16 PM
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It may make sense, but where is the proof?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #174080
06/09/15 08:27 PM
06/09/15 08:27 PM
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Knowing where the sites are is not of utmost importance. True, finding archeology evidence for Biblical accounts strengthens faith in the reliability of the scriptures, yet there is no salvific value in the places or the objects themselves.

Finding the ancient ark of the covenant and building a third temple over in Palestine has no salvific value -- the earthly temple services ended at the cross.

Christ, with His own blood entered the heavenly sanctuary.

Hebrews 8:5 [Earthly priests] serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle.

Hebrews 9: 11 Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy places, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:




The ark of the covenant represents God's throne.
His presence is pictured as being between the covering cherubim.

Psalms 99:1 The LORD reigns; let the people tremble: he sits between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.

The law (ten commandments) being placed under the mercy seat represents the foundational law of God's government. The principles of this law supports God's throne. The principles of that law represents His rule of righteousness.

The wording on those tablets of stone given to Moses is written to convict sinful mankind. They are written in stone to show their eternal unchanging importance.

Once convicted of our sinfulness and led to Christ in repentance the principles of that law are to be written upon our hearts -- in their positive form. We will honor God first and above all, we will not place any created object or image in God's place, we will speak His name with awe and reverence and long to represent Him in ways to bring Him glory. We will delight to set apart His sanctified day as a day for special fellowship with Him. etc.

We are not "THE temple" but God seeks to "tabernacle" with us -- thus in a sense by His cleansing Holy Spirit we are "temples of the Holy Spirit", in that He dwells with us.


Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary is far greater than just us, but it certainly does include a work to cleans our lives of sin and make us fit for His presence eternally.

Christ is establishing the list of redeemed right now of those who will walk with Him in white for eternity!

Rev. 3:5,4 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. ...and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.


Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: dedication] #174086
06/10/15 12:40 PM
06/10/15 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Knowing where the sites are is not of utmost importance. True, finding archeology evidence for Biblical accounts strengthens faith in the reliability of the scriptures, yet there is no salvific value in the places or the objects themselves. Finding the ancient ark of the covenant and building a third temple over in Palestine has no salvific value -- the earthly temple services ended at the cross.

That is VERY true.

///

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: James Peterson] #177864
11/08/15 07:42 PM
11/08/15 07:42 PM
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No this is not true.

"But in God’s appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath." Manuscript 122, "The Law", November 23, 1901. {8MR 100.3}

***** STAFF EDIT *****

Last edited by Daryl; 11/10/15 12:46 AM. Reason: Removed inappropriate content.

Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #177892
11/10/15 12:57 AM
11/10/15 12:57 AM
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EGW wrote:
Quote:
The Lord gave me a view of the heavenly sanctuary. The temple of God was opened in heaven, and I was shown the ark of God covered with the mercy-seat. Two angels stood at either end of the ark, with their wings spread over the mercy-seat, and their faces turned toward it. This my accompanying angel informed me represented all the heavenly host looking with reverential awe toward the Law of God which had been written by the finger of God.—LS (1880) 237. {TA 250.1}

So where is the ark of the covenant?

I think the above EGW quote answers that question.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

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Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #177903
11/10/15 03:08 AM
11/10/15 03:08 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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The earthly ark is a model of the heavenly. God showed Moses what to build but the earthly ark is still here.

"The ark containing the law of God, the altar of incense, and other instruments of service found in the sanctuary below, have also their counterpart in the sanctuary above. In holy vision the apostle John was permitted to enter heaven, and he there beheld the candlestick and the altar of incense, and as `the temple of God was opened,' he beheld also `the ark of His testament' (Revelation 11:19)."--4SP 261.

"Before the temple was destroyed, God made known to a few of His faithful servants the fate of the temple, which was the pride of Israel, and which they regarded with idolatry, while they were sinning against God. He also revealed to them the captivity of Israel. These righteous men, just before the destruction of the temple, removed the sacred ark containing the tables of stone, and with mourning and sadness, secreted it in a cave where it was to be hid from the people of Israel, because of their sins, and was to be no more restored to them. That sacred ark is yet hid. It has never been disturbed since it was secreted."--4SG 114, 115 (1864);1SP 414 (1870); SR 195.

***** STAFF EDIT *****

Last edited by Daryl; 11/10/15 08:29 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate content.

Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #177933
11/10/15 09:10 PM
11/10/15 09:10 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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So are you going to correct your statement Brother Daryl? Have you changed your mind or is this not enough?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #177934
11/10/15 09:17 PM
11/10/15 09:17 PM
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kland  Offline
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Maybe James is not aware of this:
Quote:
While these words of holy trust ascend to God, the clouds sweep back, and the starry heavens are seen, unspeakably glorious in contrast with the black and angry firmament on either side. The glory of the celestial city streams from the gates ajar. Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together. Says the prophet: "The heavens shall declare His righteousness: for God is judge Himself." Psalm 50:6. That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the rule of judgment. The hand opens the tables, and there are seen the precepts of the Decalogue, traced as with a pen of fire. The words are so plain that all can read them. Memory is aroused, the darkness of superstition and heresy is swept from every mind, and God's ten words, brief, comprehensive, and authoritative, are presented to the view of all the inhabitants of the earth. {GC 639.1}

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #177936
11/10/15 11:18 PM
11/10/15 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
The earthly ark is a model of the heavenly. God showed Moses what to build but the earthly ark is still here.

"The ark containing the law of God, the altar of incense, and other instruments of service found in the sanctuary below, have also their counterpart in the sanctuary above. In holy vision the apostle John was permitted to enter heaven, and he there beheld the candlestick and the altar of incense, and as `the temple of God was opened,' he beheld also `the ark of His testament' (Revelation 11:19)."--4SP 261.

"Before the temple was destroyed, God made known to a few of His faithful servants the fate of the temple, which was the pride of Israel, and which they regarded with idolatry, while they were sinning against God. He also revealed to them the captivity of Israel. These righteous men, just before the destruction of the temple, removed the sacred ark containing the tables of stone, and with mourning and sadness, secreted it in a cave where it was to be hid from the people of Israel, because of their sins, and was to be no more restored to them. That sacred ark is yet hid. It has never been disturbed since it was secreted."--4SG 114, 115 (1864);1SP 414 (1870); SR 195.

Seems that this is the one that answers the question as to where it is, namely in a cave somewhere, possibly not very far from where the temple was located.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: kland] #177937
11/10/15 11:22 PM
11/10/15 11:22 PM
Daryl  Offline

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Originally Posted By: kland
Maybe James is not aware of this:
Quote:
While these words of holy trust ascend to God, the clouds sweep back, and the starry heavens are seen, unspeakably glorious in contrast with the black and angry firmament on either side. The glory of the celestial city streams from the gates ajar. Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together. Says the prophet: "The heavens shall declare His righteousness: for God is judge Himself." Psalm 50:6. That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the rule of judgment. The hand opens the tables, and there are seen the precepts of the Decalogue, traced as with a pen of fire. The words are so plain that all can read them. Memory is aroused, the darkness of superstition and heresy is swept from every mind, and God's ten words, brief, comprehensive, and authoritative, are presented to the view of all the inhabitants of the earth. {GC 639.1}

In light of the other EGW quote, this seems to be referring to the one that is in the New Jerusalem.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Daryl] #177941
11/11/15 02:52 AM
11/11/15 02:52 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Yes exactly. I wish I could share the amazing moments of peaceful grace filled conversations with Brother Ron Wyatt I had when he was alive. He was the most amazing man I think I have ever men and so humble. Many people are going to shocked when they see the honor he receives in heaven.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #177942
11/11/15 03:02 AM
11/11/15 03:02 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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It's funny how God leads me to these amazing people who you all persecute and He shows me how He loves them and supports them yet most of you want their destruction. And you call me evil.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #177949
11/11/15 02:38 PM
11/11/15 02:38 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
Yes exactly. I wish I could share the amazing moments of peaceful grace filled conversations with Brother Ron Wyatt I had when he was alive. He was the most amazing man I think I have ever men and so humble. Many people are going to shocked when they see the honor he receives in heaven.
To bad that he has shown another side to many others besides you. I met the man too, very smooth talker, nearly convincing. How do you account for testimony from my personal friend, who is still live and very sharp, and an academic?

http://www.ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #177951
11/11/15 05:37 PM
11/11/15 05:37 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
It's funny how God leads me to these amazing people who you all persecute and He shows me how He loves them and supports them yet most of you want their destruction. And you call me evil.
Right before I read your last two posts, I was going to say, some people believe Ron Wyatt found it.

Ron Wyatt is a fraud!

I searched and found a clip of him. I agree with APL, except I would add he also appeals to your emotions. I believe he is almost and expert, though not in honesty.
Either Ron Wyatt is a fraud, or many other people are (such as Shelton).

Hmmm... If A=B and C=A, then...... what can we assume about C?

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Daryl] #177952
11/11/15 05:39 PM
11/11/15 05:39 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Daryl
Originally Posted By: kland
Maybe James is not aware of this:
Quote:
While these words of holy trust ascend to God, the clouds sweep back, and the starry heavens are seen, unspeakably glorious in contrast with the black and angry firmament on either side. The glory of the celestial city streams from the gates ajar. Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together. Says the prophet: "The heavens shall declare His righteousness: for God is judge Himself." Psalm 50:6. That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the rule of judgment. The hand opens the tables, and there are seen the precepts of the Decalogue, traced as with a pen of fire. The words are so plain that all can read them. Memory is aroused, the darkness of superstition and heresy is swept from every mind, and God's ten words, brief, comprehensive, and authoritative, are presented to the view of all the inhabitants of the earth. {GC 639.1}

In light of the other EGW quote, this seems to be referring to the one that is in the New Jerusalem.
I'm thinking James is mixing up which one will be seen.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #177959
11/11/15 07:30 PM
11/11/15 07:30 PM
APL  Offline
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According to james, the Ark has been seen already, though there is not one shred of proof.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #177961
11/11/15 08:36 PM
11/11/15 08:36 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Have you heard about the men in Jerusalem who listened to Ron Wyatt and insisted on going in to get the Ark?

TRAGIC HAPPENINGS:
(As told during question and answer period at Lexington, TN on January 9, 1999)

QUESTION: What about the 6 men who died. Were they Rabbi's?

ANSWER: Now about the six men. I don't know if they were Rabbi's or not. The Ark of the Covenant is 300' north of the old city wall of Jerusalem and is in occupied territory. As you know Yasser Arafat has every intention of getting Jerusalem back and this area. And the UN and the United States seem to be intent on forcing Israel to accept that situation.

The Israelis wanted to move the Ark of the Covenant out of occupied territory, into their own territory. And they allowed or arranged for six men, dressed in Levitical garb to go in and move the Ark. I didn't ask too many questions as I have learned that it is best not to get nosy. When I go over there, quite often I will stop by the Antiquities Office, and ask them if there is something I can help them with. Now we have some electronics and some experience using electronics, and so we are able to find things that they have problems locating. We are able to see if there is something in a cave, before we actually open it, with electronics. And so they have had me do some of this for them.

On this occasion they just said, "yes we have a problem that you may be able to help us with." So that night I met them down at Zedekiah's Cave. Some of you know where that is if you have been there. And so we went in, and they said that six men went down this tunnel to move the Ark of the Covenant to a safer place and they didn't come out. "Would you go see what happened to them." Well the Israelis are not cowards by any stretch of the imagination. Now the men that were in the tunnel had these walkie-talkies or radios, and I'm sure they were in contact with people that were at the opening to the tunnel. All I can figure is, that they must have made some horrifying noises as they died, which was heard by those outside, otherwise they would have gone in to see what happened to them. But, nobody would go in. Well when I went in they were all six dead. From the beginning of the tunnel in Zedekiah's Cave to the chamber that the Ark of the Covenant is in, is 370'. They had progressed approximately 70' along the tunnel when they died. All of them died of a bilateral stroke, as witnessed by the fact that in all six, both of their eyes were crossed.

Now to date there have been approximately 16 people who have died, because they have tried to interfere with or stop this work that God is allowing me to do. Most of them died in connection with the Ark of the Covenant in particular. They have all died of brain cancer or stroke. So anyway what I basically did when I saw what had happened, I went back out and told them. They had brought along these rescue baskets made of lightweight alloy, with ropes tied to them in case I was able to go in.

So I took the baskets in one at a time. I would pick up a body and put it in a basket. I held it upright as the people at the end of the tunnel would pull the basket out. When we got one to the entrance to the tunnel, I would take another basket back in and load on another body, until we got all six of them out. I didn't ask what they did with them, I didn't ask anything and was asked not to say anything. But this appeared in a couple of papers that there had been six Israelis die in an effort to retrieve a national artifact. Because it was in the papers, some people asked me if I knew about it. I answered yes! And so we have shared that information. What this indicates is simply God is quite happy with the Ark of the Covenant being where it is, and has no intention of letting anybody move it."




***** STAFF EDIT *****

Last edited by Daryl; 11/11/15 10:53 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate content.

Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: kland] #177962
11/11/15 08:37 PM
11/11/15 08:37 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Oh you mean Danny Shelton who it is claimed by his estranged ex wife that he tried to have her killed?

Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
It's funny how God leads me to these amazing people who you all persecute and He shows me how He loves them and supports them yet most of you want their destruction. And you call me evil.
Right before I read your last two posts, I was going to say, some people believe Ron Wyatt found it.

Ron Wyatt is a fraud!

I searched and found a clip of him. I agree with APL, except I would add he also appeals to your emotions. I believe he is almost and expert, though not in honesty.
Either Ron Wyatt is a fraud, or many other people are (such as Shelton).

Hmmm... If A=B and C=A, then...... what can we assume about C?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178310
11/20/15 05:49 PM
11/20/15 05:49 PM
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kland  Offline
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James, a claim from an "estranged ex wife" is not proof it is true. Do you have otherwise?

What about Russell R. Standish and Colin D. Standish? Harold G. Coffin?

http://tentmaker.org/WAR/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erpl25WUWdI

If you receive visions from God, and God has not informed you that Wyatt is a fraud....

what can we assume about C?

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178317
11/20/15 10:26 PM
11/20/15 10:26 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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When I met Ron in Alaska he had with him artifacts that could have only been part of the original tabernacle. Pieces of pomegranates that were being brought for analysis. Pictures of complete objects such as Ivory Pomegranates that were in the temple. None of you know what you are talking about and since you are so willing to ridicule someone you have not met I suggest you get yourselves in order before casting stones. You have no time so you will know the wrath of God.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178319
11/21/15 12:18 AM
11/21/15 12:18 AM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jsot
...someone you have not met...
I met him. He is still a fraud.

As for the wrath of God, do you even know what it is? You claim to act like Christ, does this describe you? Jesus did not suppress one word of truth, but He uttered it always in love. He exercised the greatest tact and thoughtful, kind attention in His intercourse with the people. He was never rude, never needlessly spoke a severe word, never gave needless pain to a sensitive soul. {SC 12.1} He was NEVER RUDE.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: APL] #178327
11/21/15 02:33 AM
11/21/15 02:33 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: jsot
...someone you have not met...
I met him. He is still a fraud.



Prove it, I want dates ***** STAFF EDIT *****

Jesus called the pharisees hypocrites and a brood of vipers and drove the wicked out of the temple with a whip. you would call him rude to.

Last edited by Daryl; 11/21/15 11:28 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate content.

Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #178329
11/21/15 02:42 AM
11/21/15 02:42 AM
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JAK  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
None of you know what you are talking about and since you are so willing to ridicule someone you have not met

You don't have to meet someone to know they are a fraud.
***** STAFF EDIT *****

dunno

Last edited by Daryl; 11/21/15 11:26 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate content.

"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: APL] #178330
11/21/15 02:47 AM
11/21/15 02:47 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: jsot
...someone you have not met...
I met him. He is still a fraud.

As for the wrath of God, do you even know what it is? You claim to act like Christ, does this describe you? Jesus did not suppress one word of truth, but He uttered it always in love. He exercised the greatest tact and thoughtful, kind attention in His intercourse with the people. He was never rude, never needlessly spoke a severe word, never gave needless pain to a sensitive soul. {SC 12.1} He was NEVER RUDE.



Never NEEDLESSLY spoke a severe word. Most of you are rude to me all the time, so if you are judged by the same measure what will happen to you?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178352
11/21/15 11:21 PM
11/21/15 11:21 PM
Daryl  Offline

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ADMIN HAT ON!!!!!

As I am no longer tolerating these type of posts against other users here, I am removing all posts that are directed to each other and not to the thread topic.

If these type of posts continues, those posting them will be banned for one week.

ADMIN HAT OFF!!!!!


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #178413
11/23/15 05:39 PM
11/23/15 05:39 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
When I met Ron in Alaska he had with him artifacts that could have only been part of the original tabernacle.
You do realize, "could have only been" is a conclusion, not a fact.

You did not address the links I gave in response to you rejecting Danny Shelton. Someone you have not met?

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #178415
11/23/15 06:11 PM
11/23/15 06:11 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
  • When I met Ron in Alaska he had with him artifacts that could have only been part of the original tabernacle. Pieces of pomegranates that were being brought for analysis. Pictures of complete objects such as Ivory Pomegranates that were in the temple.

  • None of you know what you are talking about and since you are so willing to ridicule someone you have not met I suggest you get yourselves in order before casting stones.

  • You have no time so you will know the wrath of God.

ON THE CASE OF THE MISSING POMEGRANATES:

1. To say that the artifacts "could have only been part of the original tabernacle" is to exalt yourself to heaven and speak pompous words.

2. Kindly provide sufficient evidence that you held and handled the pomegranates of THE original tabernacle, and can tell whether some other pomegranate is ORIGINAL.

3. reading

///

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: APL] #178522
11/28/15 11:40 AM
11/28/15 11:40 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: jsot
...someone you have not met...
I met him. He is still a fraud.

As for the wrath of God, do you even know what it is? You claim to act like Christ, does this describe you? Jesus did not suppress one word of truth, but He uttered it always in love. He exercised the greatest tact and thoughtful, kind attention in His intercourse with the people. He was never rude, never needlessly spoke a severe word, never gave needless pain to a sensitive soul. {SC 12.1} He was NEVER RUDE.
Unless you have something substantial showing it, I would not call a person a fraud.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178532
11/28/15 02:31 PM
11/28/15 02:31 PM
APL  Offline
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Originally Posted By: rick h
Unless you have something substantial showing it, I would not call a person a fraud.
There is. And I've spoken to people directly involved with Wyatt. Have you not read any of the links? You want more? Read here: http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178603
12/02/15 07:54 PM
12/02/15 07:54 PM
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kland  Offline
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Rick, I gave you the link, too. What's your response to them?

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178666
12/06/15 09:52 PM
12/06/15 09:52 PM
Daryl  Offline

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178679
12/08/15 05:39 PM
12/08/15 05:39 PM
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kland  Offline
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In the words of the man who put Ron Wyatt through the test [lie detector test], as told by the man who gave Ron Wyatt all the previous money, "He failed just about everything except his name."

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178884
01/03/16 02:44 AM
01/03/16 02:44 AM
dedication  Offline
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The topic title:
Where is the Ark of the Covenant? (The earthly one, as we all know the heavenly ark of the covenant is in heaven -- see Revelation 11:19)

We have it from EGW writings that the ark is hidden somewhere in a cave close to Jerusalem.

"
Quote:
"Before the temple was destroyed, God made known to a few of His faithful servants the fate of the temple, which was the pride of Israel, and which they regarded with idolatry, while they were sinning against God. He also revealed to them the captivity of Israel. These righteous men, just before the destruction of the temple, removed the sacred ark containing the tables of stone, and with mourning and sadness, secreted it in a cave where it was to be hid from the people of Israel, because of their sins, and was to be no more restored to them. That sacred ark is yet hid. It has never been disturbed since it was secreted."--4SG 114, 115 (1864);1SP 414 (1870); SR 195.

"And He [Christ] gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communicating with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written by the finger of God." Nothing written on those tables could be blotted out. The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, safely hidden from the human family. But in God's appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath (MS 122, 1901). {1BC 1109.2}


We also have an account from one of the Apocryphal books --
2 Maccabees chapter two:

Quote:
2 Macc. 2:4 These same records also tell us that Jeremiah, acting under divine guidance, commanded the Tent of the Lord's Presence and the Covenant Box to follow him to the mountain where Moses had looked down on the land which God had promised our people. 5 When Jeremiah got to the mountain, he found a huge cave and there he hid the Tent of the Lord's Presence, the Covenant Box, and the altar of incense. Then he sealed up the entrance.

6 Some of Jeremiah's friends tried to follow him and mark the way, but they could not find the cave. 7 When Jeremiah learned what they had done, he reprimanded them, saying,


No one must know about this place until God gathers his people together again and shows them mercy. 8 At that time he will reveal where these things are hidden, and the dazzling light of his presence will be seen in the cloud, as it was in the time of Moses and on the occasion when Solomon prayed that the Temple might be dedicated in holy splendor.


So where is the ark?

The answer is simple -- we don't know.

From my understanding Wyatt's is just one person who claims to have found the ark. There are a half dozen or more claims by people who say they have found the ark and each one claims it is in a different place.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #178967
01/10/16 01:30 AM
01/10/16 01:30 AM
Daryl  Offline

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So the ark is hidden in a cave somewhere near Jerusalem not to be revealed until God's appointed time.

Do we know when that appointed time will be?

Will it be before or after probation closes?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: kland] #182251
12/30/16 04:59 AM
12/30/16 04:59 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Rick, I gave you the link, too. What's your response to them?


I to believe Ron Wyatt was fraudulent about the Ark of the Covenant. But, I believe he did a great work on the Exodus and the Red Sea Crossing. That is by far the best explanation I've found on that subject.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #182263
01/03/17 04:42 AM
01/03/17 04:42 AM
dedication  Offline
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According to the "Temple Institute" in Jerusalem, whose chief function is to research and prepare for the "third temple", they know where the ark is.

According to their research the ark of the covenant is in a cave under Jerusalem's temple site.
King Solomon, inspired by God, made provision for the survival of the important temple furnishings by creating a labyrinth of underground tunnels and rooms, with one specific chamber in which to secret these important articles. King Josiah, after being told that Jerusalem would fall sometime after his death, had the ark and other important vessels placed in this chamber and sealed.
The Midrash supposedly reveals where this is, and the leaders in the "Temple Institute" are confident that these things will be brought out at the right time.



https://www.templeinstitute.org/ark_of_the_covenant.htm

For them the purpose of it "coming out" is to verify the third temple and show that the Jews have the "right" to the temple mount.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Windsor] #182267
01/03/17 08:52 PM
01/03/17 08:52 PM
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kland  Offline
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Which probably means, if they really know where it is, they won't show it until they are secured from attack. Which probably means, it won't be shown until the meltdown begins. So hope no one is waiting to make a choice dependent upon the ark being shown, because it will be too late.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: APL] #182301
01/12/17 07:51 AM
01/12/17 07:51 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: rick h
Unless you have something substantial showing it, I would not call a person a fraud.
There is. And I've spoken to people directly involved with Wyatt. Have you not read any of the links? You want more? Read here: http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/


I do believe Ron Wyatt was a fraud about the Ark of the Covenant. I believe he was very mistaken about Noah's Ark. But, Ron Wyatt brought the very best answer so far as to the Red Sea Crossing and the location of Mt. Sinai.

As far as Sodom and Gomorrah is concerned; even though I tend to agree with Ron Wyatt on this assessment, I am not aware of definitive proof that they were located where the Dead Sea is now.

Re: Where is the Ark of the Covenant? [Re: Alchemy] #182309
01/14/17 05:58 AM
01/14/17 05:58 AM
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Josh M  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alchemy
As far as Sodom and Gomorrah is concerned; even though I tend to agree with Ron Wyatt on this assessment, I am not aware of definitive proof that they were located where the Dead Sea is now.


It just occurred to me that where they were may be impossible to determine, on the basis that there may be nothing at all left to find.

When describing the fire from heaven at Mount Carmel the Bible says that even the stones were consumed. "Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench." (1 Kings 18:38)

The Bible then further compares the ultimate destruction of all the wicked to what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah, pointing out that the cities were turned into ashes. "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;" (2 Peter 2:6)

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