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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77303
07/19/06 04:47 AM
07/19/06 04:47 AM
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. See also
The Holy Spirit is the “spirit of the Father”.
Christ is begotten of the Father’s Spirit, and hence His Son. He is the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Unquote.
Now we have in picture as according to your view:
1. God the Father, the Almighty God
2. The Holy Spirit, which is the spirit of God the father
3. Jesus Christ, a Spirit born of God and became the Son of God, a Mighty God himself, the Almighty God’s representative.
Wow, very interesting!
Is this true or misleading???
In His love
James S
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77304
07/19/06 05:16 AM
07/19/06 05:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Not to sure about Christ being a spirit James. Maybe I misread something, but can you expand on #3
God Bless,
Will
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77305
07/19/06 05:27 AM
07/19/06 05:27 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Here's the context of Col. 1:15. Here it says that Christ is before all things, which means there wasn't a time when Christ did not exist. It also points out that Christ created all things, which points to an interpretation which suggests that "firstborn" has to do with the act of creating, not that Christ was the first creature created.
I don't know if this is in disagreement with what John said, however, since John did not explicitly say there was a time when Christ did not exist, I don't think. If John has in mind something similar to what I wrote regarding "brought forth," perhaps we're in agreement. I'll have to see what he has to say.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77306
07/19/06 05:52 AM
07/19/06 05:52 AM
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OP
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Jakarta, Indonesia
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Something to ponder on.
The Ten Commandment was given by God Himself, where the 1st command says: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
If we believe in Trinity, where there are three equal Gods, does it not stands against this command? And if really there are Trinity, three equal Gods, how could God gave this command?
Also if the Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Almighty God, how could we accept him as another equal God to the Father? In fact they must be one God only, same as my spirit and me are not two different personalities.
With this line of thought, it becomes more like what the Moslem believed that there is only one God.
But a single all alone God could not know what agape is , because agape needs another equal person to love , without another person as an object to love , there would be only self love or selfishness .
Is it possible that at the beginning we have only a one single all alone God who was selfish , and then after the Son was brought forth, He learned about agape?
In His love
James S.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77307
07/19/06 05:58 AM
07/19/06 05:58 AM
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OP
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Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote.
Here's the context of Col. 1:15. Here it says that Christ is before all things, which means there wasn't a time when Christ did not exist.
Unquote.
It may also means that Christ indeed was before all “things created” but doesn’t help the idea that he might be not exist before there was anything created.
Is there time before anything was created?
If time is not a “thing” that was created before anything is created, then there might be a time where Christ does not exist, before God brought him forth.
In His love
James S
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77308
07/19/06 06:21 AM
07/19/06 06:21 AM
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Not to sure about Christ being a spirit James. Maybe I misread something, but can you expand on #3
God Bless,
Will
Quote.
3. Jesus Christ, a Spirit born of God and became the Son of God, a Mighty God himself, the Almighty God’s representative.
Unquote.
This is my comment to John B, according to his line of thought, Jesus was born from the Spirit of the Father, which makes him also a Spirit not inferior to the Father’s Spirit but an equal one only act as a Son of God and maybe has not something what the Father has.
If Christ is equal with the Father in responsibility, power and knowledge, he would be the same Almighty God as His Father and thus we have two Gods that is against his own 1st command of the Decalogue, also he would not say that in regards of the Day of his returns only the Almighty God, His Father knows when it is.
In His love
James S
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77309
07/19/06 02:57 PM
07/19/06 02:57 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Quote:
The prophecy in Isa 9:6 tells us that when the governments have been put upon His shoulders then He will be called “Mighty God” not “the Almighty God”.
Who is the “Mighty God” of Isa. 10:21?
How can Jesus be the eternal “I am” if there was a time He was not?
“Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God” (Heb. 7:13).
“Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me” (Isa. 43:10).
Who is speaking here? The LORD here is the “I am”...
“Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God” (Isa. 44:6).
Who is speaking here? Jesus is the First and the Last (Rev. 22:13)...
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77310
07/19/06 10:49 PM
07/19/06 10:49 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
It may also means that Christ indeed was before all “things created” but doesn’t help the idea that he might be not exist before there was anything created.
Is there time before anything was created?
If time is not a “thing” that was created before anything is created, then there might be a time where Christ does not exist, before God brought him forth.
Time is a thing, and so is space. Christ created space/time, in which we exist and are bound. He is before space/time, and is not bound by these things in the same way we are.
Also Paul wrote that Christ created "all things" not "all other things." (John said the same thing --that Christ made all things, not "all other things"). If Christ were created, it obviously could not be true that Christ created all things.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77311
07/19/06 10:51 PM
07/19/06 10:51 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
The Ten Commandment was given by God Himself, where the 1st command says: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
It was Christ who spoke the first commandment. It was He who said, "Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me."
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Are we transgressing the 1st commandment or not?
#77312
07/19/06 11:49 PM
07/19/06 11:49 PM
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Full Member
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
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Quote:
My, my……. This really become very interesting.
It never come to my attention to question what Trinity is, to question is Jesus God or the Son of God until the day I read David post in the Sabbath school lesson.
Now, I really must find out the truth because as the scripture said: Knowing God is eternal life, which makes this discussion becomes really worthy.
Now, a vague picture start building in my mind that all the time when I believe Christ is the same God as God the Father, so is the Holy Spirit, is not correct, but I want to make sure through the development of this discussion.
I understand that this is a very delicate topic and must be discussed with care and lots of pray because for me, it would bring a shift of faith.
In His love
James S
I found 1 John 5 very interesting when I began to look at this subject; verse 5 and 6 really hit me.
Then Verse 7 (by the way it is the Received Text as a supplied text) shows that the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one, however they are one in the plan of Salivation and the accomplishment of that plan.
The whole chapter is powerful
Peace and Grace
David
=======
Subject spelling correction only. - Daryl 
Last edited by Daryl Fawcett; 07/20/06 01:19 AM.
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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