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II Cor 3 #8379
10/12/01 05:04 PM
10/12/01 05:04 PM
D
DenBorg  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 146
Blanchard, OK
I would like to hear comments on what the message of II Cor 3 is. By this, I might see some points that I've missed while reading it.

Re: II Cor 3 #8380
10/14/01 06:50 PM
10/14/01 06:50 PM
J
Jean Miller  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 183
USA
The answer to this chapter lies in the translation. My son has a Bible translated by Messianic Jews and if I remember right, they are translated it the way it should be translated. I'll try to obtain this Bible as soon as I can and report on it to you. Many times just a slight change in a word can mean all the difference. For instance, in the parable of the talents in Matthew 25, as I studied this chapter, something leaped out at me. "Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed; and I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth; lo, there thou hast that is thine. Hie lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed." Matthew 25:24-26.

As I studied this parable it dawned on me that the wicked servant was charging God with being evil, and then we have God coming and agreeing with him when He said, "Thou KNEWEST that I reap where I sowed not." I thought, "Something is wrong here, because I know from the rest of the Bible that God is not like that. So, I looked u the word "knewest" in Strong's Concordance. Another translation of the word is "perceived." This makes all the difference in the world! This is the word that should have been put in. In other words, the wicked servant charges God with being evil, and God comes along and says, "If you perceived that I was like that, then the least you should have done was this..." This translation does not have God agreeing that He is evil, but merely saying, "That is your perception of me." So, changing slightly a few key words makes all the difference in the world. As soon as I get this Bible I'll show you how they interpret several difficult texts in the New Testament and by just changing slightly a few key words, the problem is cleared up, making these texts agree with the rest of the Bible. That's why I think they are right--because then these texts line up with the rest of the Bible.


Re: II Cor 3 #8381
10/15/01 03:42 AM
10/15/01 03:42 AM
D
DenBorg  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 146
Blanchard, OK
Thank you, Jean!

Somehow that is how I understood that parable to read; but the meaning of other scriptures could be obscured more.

I look forward to hearing more about this other translation, and how it has 2 Cor 3 translated.

I really need to get me a Strong's Concordance!

Thank-you again!


Re: II Cor 3 #8382
10/19/01 04:09 AM
10/19/01 04:09 AM
Edward F Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,428
Zanesville, OH 43701
How about a free one ? Online Bible is free & downloadable from the internet. When I find the URL I will prepose it to be put in the appropriate websites forum if it isn't already there. It has several Bible versions & Strongs & more.

------------------
Edward F Sutton


Re: II Cor 3 #8383
10/19/01 01:14 PM
10/19/01 01:14 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
Good idea, Ed, except the Forum Library would be a better place for it, I think.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited October 19, 2001).]


Re: II Cor 3 #8384
11/03/01 11:32 AM
11/03/01 11:32 AM
Edward F Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,428
Zanesville, OH 43701
http://www.onlinebible.net/downloads.html

------------------
Edward F Sutton


Re: II Cor 3 #8385
11/28/01 05:37 AM
11/28/01 05:37 AM
J
Jean Miller  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 183
USA
I got it--the Bible translated by the Messianic Jews! And here's how they translate these verses:

Vs.7 "Now if the ministry that brought death which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the children of Israel could not steadily gaze upon the face of Moses because of its gloriousness, a glory which was to fade away,

Vs.8 Will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?

Vs.9 For if the service of the condemnation; the reminder of sin, is glorious, so much more the ministry of righteousnesss; which forgives past sins, exceeds in gloriousness.

Vs.10 For what was glorious has no glory in comparison now, because of the glory that exceeds.

Vs. 11 For if that which was but passing away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts?

Vs. 12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we use great boldness of speech.

Vs. 13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not gaze at it, as the radiance was fading away.

Vs.14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted at the reading of the Law, Prohets, and Writings, because only in Messiah is it taken away; the veil taken away, and the blindness removed.

Vs.15 But even to this day, when the Law given through Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; minds.

Vs.16 However, when one turns to God, the veil is taken away."

Vs.17 Now God is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of God is, there is liberty; freedom from death.

Vs.18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholdling as in a mirror the glory of God, are being transformed into the same image, from one degree of glory to another degree of glory--which comes from God Who is the Spirit."

It seems to me that this translation is not saying that the Law is done away with, but rather now that Jesus, the Messiah is here, the veil of blindness which prohibited one from understanding the Law is removed--since Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law.

I think this translation is much more accurate because it does not give the impression that the Law is done away with.


Re: II Cor 3 #8386
11/28/01 05:44 AM
11/28/01 05:44 AM
J
Jean Miller  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 183
USA
Here's another difficult text in the KJV. "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the midde wall of partition between us, having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby." Ephesians 2:13-16.

The KJV gives the impression that the Law is done away with. But look at the Jewish Messianic translation!

"But now, in Jesus Messiah, you who were once far off, have been brought near through the blood of Messiah. For He is our peace, Whoh has made both one, and has broken down the dividing wall separating us--ABOLISHING THE ENMITY; THE HATRED AND THE OPPOSITION TO THE LAW, THE COMMANDMENETS, AND THE ORDINANCES, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace."

Notice that it is the enmity to the law-not the law--that is abolished. I think they got it straight!


Re: II Cor 3 #8387
11/28/01 03:42 PM
11/28/01 03:42 PM
B
Bob Pickle  Offline
Active Member 2013
Dedicated Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,102
Halstad, MN
DenBorg,

The best answer to 2 Cor. 3 is found in 1SM 236-245.

To bolster the interpretation of the passage given by Ellen White, consider 2 Cor. 3:7, 11, 13, 14, and Rom. 3:31. In each verse is a Greek word, katargeo. This word is translated "done away," "abolished," and "make void" in these verses.

What this basically tells us is that Paul tells us that the law is not done away in Rom., but seems to say the opposite in 2 Cor. 3. The solution is that one passage is talking about the 10 Commandments and the other about the ceremonial law.


Re: II Cor 3 #8388
11/29/01 07:42 AM
11/29/01 07:42 AM
J
Jean Miller  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 183
USA
The only problem, Picle, is that in the text itself it does not say that it is speaking of the ceremonial law--I know, the word "ceremonial" is not in the Bible--but EGW defines "ceremonial" as the sacrificial system and these verses do not even give the impression that it is the sacrificial system that is being addressed. So, to prove that it is is stretching the words.

That's why I think the Messianic Jews are correct. I know because of other passages that Paul addresses that he definitely does not throw out the law--so we can't make Paul conflict with himself; thus these verses cannot be speaking of throwing out the moral law--but neither does Paul give good indication he is speaking of the ceremonial law. That is the problem.


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