HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,194
Posts195,567
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 16
kland 12
Daryl 3
April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Member Spotlight
ProdigalOne
ProdigalOne
Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,178
Joined: June 2015
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
2 registered members (2 invisible), 3,186 guests, and 17 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Is Character Inherited? #90444
07/08/07 02:57 PM
07/08/07 02:57 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
It has been suggested that we inherit the sinful character our parents and ancestors developed dating back to Adam and Eve, and that we are condemned to hell based on their sins. Is it true?

Re: Is Character Inherited? [Re: Mountain Man] #90446
07/08/07 03:14 PM
07/08/07 03:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The following passages indicate that character is not inherited, that we are not condemned to hell based on the sins of our parents or ancestors.

 Quote:
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. {Eze 18:20}

But character is not transferable. {COL 411.2}

A noble character is not the result of accident; it is not due to special favors or endowments of Providence. It is the result of self-discipline, of subjection of the lower to the higher nature, of the surrender of self to the service of God and man. {CC 249.4}

Character cannot be bought; it must be formed by stern efforts to resist temptation. The formation of a right character is the work of a lifetime, and is the outgrowth of prayerful meditation united with a grand purpose. The excellence of character that you possess must be the result of your own effort. {FE 87.2}

Character does not come by chance. It is not determined by one outburst of temper, one step in the wrong direction. It is the repetition of the act that causes it to become habit, and molds the character either for good or for evil. {CG 164.1}

Nevertheless, there are other passages which clearly teach we do indeed inherit the traits of character our parents cultivated. We inherit their traits, not their character. We inherit the inclinations, tendencies, propensities associated with the traits of character our parents cultivated.

As a result of our parents' influence on us, both by inheritance and by example, the likelihood we will develop similar traits of character is high. And it is the character we ourselves cultivate, not the traits or tendencies we inherit, that determines our eternal destiny in judgment.

Re: Is Character Inherited? [Re: Mountain Man] #90463
07/09/07 03:08 PM
07/09/07 03:08 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
 Quote:
The following passages indicate that character is not inherited

Why do you use just some passages and omit others? The passages you quoted make clear that a right character, a noble character is not inherited. But of course a sinful, defective character is inherited; defects of character are inherited. Please study the following quotes:

“They [many of the children who attend our schools] have inherited the defective characters of their parents, and the discipline of the home has been no help in the formation of right character.” {2MCP 550.1}

“But many have inherited traits of character that in no way represent the divine Model. There are many who have some defect of character received as a birthright, which they have not overcome, but have cherished as though it were fine gold, and brought with them into their religious experience. In many cases these traits are retained through the entire life. For a time no particular harm may be seen to result from them; but the leaven is at work, and when a favorable opportunity arrives, the evil manifests itself.” {5T 418.1}

The character is the sum total of your traits of character. This is obvious. You are born with a character which can be modified at any moment.

“God expects every one who claims to be his child to reveal to the world not their natural, hereditary, sinful character, but a representation of the character of Christ.” {HM, December 1, 1894 par. 4}

If character cannot be inherited, why does she say that many children have inherited the defective character of their parents? Why does she say that we can receive defects of character as a birthright? Why does she say that we shouldn’t reveal to the world our hereditary, sinful character?

Please study the following quote:

God gave our first parents a pure and upright character, in harmony with His law; and had they remained obedient, they would have bequeathed the same character to their posterity. But they listened to Satan's specious temptations, and transgressed this holy law, and the result was death. And the sons and daughters of Adam, instead of coming into the world, as God first made man, righteous and heirs of eternal life, have been the victims of sin and death and woe. This is the result of the transgression of God's law in Eden.” {BEcho, July 29, 1895 par. 2}

How could God have given our first parents a pure and upright character if we are not born with a character? How could this character have been bequeathed to Adam’s posterity? Please notice that, if Adam had not sinned, his sons and daughters would have come into the world righteous, that is, would have been born righteous. Does “righteous” describe a person’s character or not? Are we born righteous? Was Christ born righteous?

 Quote:
And it is the character we ourselves cultivate, not the traits or tendencies we inherit, that determines our eternal destiny in judgment.

Why then do babies need a Savior?


Re: Is Character Inherited? [Re: Rosangela] #90465
07/09/07 03:34 PM
07/09/07 03:34 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Quote:
If character cannot be inherited, why does she say that many children have inherited the defective character of their parents? Why does she say that we can receive defects of character as a birthright? Why does she say that we shouldn’t reveal to the world our hereditary, sinful character?

If we combine all the quotes posted so far on this thread I believe it is clear we inherit the traits our parents cultivated - not their character.

 Quote:
How could God have given our first parents a pure and upright character if we are not born with a character? How could this character have been bequeathed to Adam’s posterity? Please notice that, if Adam had not sinned, his sons and daughters would have come into the world righteous, that is, would have been born righteous. Does “righteous” describe a person’s character or not? Are we born righteous? Was Christ born righteous?

We begin developing certain inherited, bequeathed traits of character right away. We are always reacting and responding to our fallen propensities, always cultivating specific traits of character. Had our First Parents not sinned we would have inherited sinless propensities, sinless appetites and passions, and cultivating sinless traits of character would come naturally.

 Quote:
Why then do babies need a Savior?

Because "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God". It only takes one sin to need a Saviour. Adam and Eve demonstrated that in the Garden of Eden. Like Eve, babies do not realize they are sinning, however, even sins of ignorance require a Saviour.

Re: Is Character Inherited? [Re: Mountain Man] #90477
07/10/07 12:56 PM
07/10/07 12:56 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
"And the sons and daughters of Adam, instead of coming into the world, as God first made man, righteous and heirs of eternal life, have been the victims of sin and death and woe.” {BEcho, July 29, 1895 par. 2}

Mike,

If Adam had not sinned, his sons and daughter would have come to the world righteous, that is, they would have been born righteous and heirs of eternal life.
Does “righteous” describe a person’s character or not? Are we born righteous? Was Christ born righteous?

 Quote:
If we combine all the quotes posted so far on this thread I believe it is clear we inherit the traits our parents cultivated - not their character.

We are born with a character made up of good and bad traits inherited from both our parents. The development of this character will last our whole lives.

Re: Is Character Inherited? [Re: Rosangela] #90483
07/11/07 01:28 AM
07/11/07 01:28 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Quote:
Does “righteous” describe a person’s character or not? Are we born righteous? Was Christ born righteous?

The word "righteous" refers to many things. When referring to sinful flesh nature, the word "righteous" doesn't apply. When referring to inherited traits of character, it doesn't apply, either.

No one is naturally born with a righteous character. Otherwise, theoretically a person could go through life without ever sinning, making God a liar. In the case of Adam's kids, if he hadn't sinned, they would have been born with a righteous flesh nature and would have developed righteous character.

Jesus was born "that holy thing". He was born with a sinful flesh nature just like the rest of us. He also had to develop a sinless character just like born again believers. He was not born with a character already developed or even partially developed. He began developing character from the moment He was incarnated. As a man, He is still developing it, and will continue to do so throughout eternity.

What does the following mean to you?

 Quote:
Like every child of Adam [Jesus] accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity. (7A 452)

Re: Is Character Inherited? [Re: Mountain Man] #90488
07/11/07 01:39 PM
07/11/07 01:39 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
I have quoted several passages, and others could be quoted which say that Adam possessed a righteous character when he was created, like the following one:

"The human race do not stand in the righteousness of character which Adam possessed at his creation." {ST, June 11, 1894 par. 11}

Besides, Ellen White makes abundantly clear that parents give the stamp of character to their children:

"Their children often receive the stamp of character before their birth; for the appetites of the parents are often intensified in the children. Thus unborn generations are afflicted by the use of tobacco and liquor. Intellectual decay is entailed upon them, and their moral perception is blunted." {ST, February 3, 1890 par. 8}

[Note: "stamp of character" is not just something with which you are born, as many quotes make clear, among them the following one:

"All who enter the missionary field will have hardships and trials to endure; they will find hard work, and plenty of it; but those of the right stamp of character will persevere under difficulties, discouragements, and privations, holding firmly to the arm of the Lord." {PH078 33.1}]

 Quote:
The word "righteous" refers to many things. When referring to sinful flesh nature, the word "righteous" doesn't apply. When referring to inherited traits of character, it doesn't apply, either.

So Jesus wasn't born righteous.

 Quote:
Jesus was born "that holy thing". He was born with a sinful flesh nature just like the rest of us.

What you've just said makes no sense. He was born "that holy thing". What distinguished Him from us?

 Quote:
No one is naturally born with a righteous character. Otherwise, theoretically a person could go through life without ever sinning, making God a liar.

This does not make sense either. Adam had a righteous character when he sinned.
I didn't understand what you said. What exactly would make God a liar?

 Quote:
What does the following mean to you?

Like every child of Adam [Jesus] accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity. (7A 452)

It means Jesus was born with a body like ours, not with a sinful character like ours.

Re: Is Character Inherited? [Re: Rosangela] #90492
07/11/07 03:05 PM
07/11/07 03:05 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rosangela, if, as you say, we have a character even before we are born, does that mean we are condemned to death even before we are born? If so, based on what? According to the SOP, it is character that determines our eternal destiny in judgment. Are we lost in judgment based on the characters our parents developed?

Not only was Adam created with a righteous character, he was also created fully grown, capable of intelligent speech, and many other things that do not apply to us when we are born. In addition to everything else, Adam's flesh was in harmony with God's will, that is, his appetites and passions were pure and holy, the thoughts and feelings they generated and communicated to his sinless mind were righteous. Which is not how we come into the world, nor is it how Jesus came into the world.

If we are born with a righteous character like Adam had when he was created, then, theoretically, we could live our lives without ever committing a sin. However, God said "all have sinned" and if we could live our lives without sinning then it would make a God a liar. I am not implying this is what you are saying.

The point is, we do not inherit character, instead, we inherit traits and tendencies that cause us to develop character. And, we naturally nurture and cultivate sinful character, which is why God can truthfully say, "All have sinned" and why Sister White repeatedly wrote - "character is not transferable".

 Quote:
That oil is the righteousness of Christ. It represents character, and character is not transferable. No man can secure it for another. Each must obtain for himself a character purified from every stain of sin. {TM 233.2}

Aroused to their darkness they plead for oil, but it is impossible for one Christian to impart character to another soul. Character is not transferable. {TMK 215.2}

Character is not transferable. It is not to be bought or sold; it is to be acquired. The Lord has given to every individual an opportunity to obtain a righteous character . . ., but He has not provided a way by which one human agent may impart to another the character which he has developed. {TMK 350.2}

The grace of God has been freely offered to every soul. The message of the gospel has been heralded, "Let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Rev. 22:17. But character is not transferable. No man can believe for another. No man can receive the Spirit for another. No man can impart to another the character which is the fruit of the Spirit's working. {COL 411.2}

I realize you believe these insight only apply to righteous character, that the righteous character of someone else does not count toward our salvation. However, there is no evidence that the sinful characters our parents developed is any different, that is, nothing suggests that we are lost because of the characters our parents formed.

Regarding Jesus and the "great law of heredity" it stands to reason that if we inherit our parents' sinful characters then so did Jesus. That is, He inherited Mary's sinful character as a minimum. But, I'm sure no one believes such a thing, therefore, how can you say we have a sinful character even before we are born? The reason I ask is because the SOP says Jesus inherited everything we inherit at birth.

Re: Is Character Inherited? [Re: Mountain Man] #90530
07/12/07 02:36 PM
07/12/07 02:36 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Mike,

"Human nature is depraved, and is justly condemned by a holy God." {RH, September 17, 1895 par. 7}

"The nature of man is in opposition to the divine will, depraved, deformed, and wholly unlike the character of God expressed in his law." {ST, June 9, 1890 par. 12}

In these quotes, what is "nature"?

Ellen White still says the following:

"You have transmitted to your children a miserable legacy, a depraved nature rendered still more depraved by your gross habits of eating and drinking." {2T 61.2}

We have a depraved nature and transmit to our children a depraved nature. It's said that this nature is "in opposition to the divine will" and, therefore, "is justly condemned by a holy God". Of course God must condemn that which is not in harmony with His will. And this is true of the nature with which we are born.

"The duty of intelligent souls is to hold to the truth, to practice virtue. We are born with a disinclination to both. It is sad to find in one's own constitution an opposition to virtues that are commendable in the sight of God, as submission, charity, sweetness of spirit, and patience that will not be provoked." {TDG 34.3}

Wouldn't God condemn a nature (character) opposed to virtue? How could God approve of it?

 Quote:
If we are born with a righteous character like Adam had when he was created, then, theoretically, we could live our lives without ever committing a sin. However, God said "all have sinned" and if we could live our lives without sinning then it would make a God a liar.

Well, Jesus never sinned. Did this make God a liar?

 Quote:
Regarding Jesus and the "great law of heredity" it stands to reason that if we inherit our parents' sinful characters then so did Jesus. That is, He inherited Mary's sinful character as a minimum.

Not so. First, nobody knows how character traits are transmitted. Even if they are indeed transmitted through the DNA, as Tom affirms, Mary's cell had a single set of 23 chromosomes. For every trait (physical or otherwise) information from both sets of 23 chromosomes is necessary. Therefore, God had to supply the lacking information, and what God supplied must necessarily be good. How this affected Christ's heredity nobody knows.

Re: Is Character Inherited? [Re: Rosangela] #90531
07/12/07 03:14 PM
07/12/07 03:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Quote:
Of course God must condemn that which is not in harmony with His will. And this is true of the nature with which we are born.

Of course God condemns fallen flesh nature. But He doesn't condemn us. He especially condemns its unholy clamorings. But He doesn't condemn us based on its unholy clamorings.

"The lower passions have their seat in the body and work through it. The words "flesh" or "fleshly" or "carnal lusts" embrace the lower, corrupt nature; the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God." {AH 127.2}

 Quote:
Wouldn't God condemn a nature (character) opposed to virtue? How could God approve of it?

Are nature and character synonymous? We inherit fallen flesh nature, whereas we cultivate character. Character is not part of nature. It is separate and distinct.

"Mental ability and genius are not character, for these are often possessed by those who have the very opposite of a good character. Reputation is not character. True character is a quality of the soul, revealing itself in the conduct." {ML 267.4}

 Quote:
Well, Jesus never sinned. Did this make God a liar?

The passage "all have sinned" does not apply to Jesus. The point is, we do not inherit character, instead, we inherit traits and tendencies that cause us to develop character. And, we naturally nurture and cultivate sinful character, which is why God can truthfully say, "All have sinned" and why Sister White repeatedly wrote - "character is not transferable".

 Quote:
How this affected Christ's heredity nobody knows.

Sister White is clear. Jesus' human nature was "perfectly identical with our own nature". The only difference is - He didn't sin. Like a born again believer partaking of the divine nature, Jesus did not indulge the unholy appetites and passions that tempted Him from within to sin. Like a believer, He held them in subjection to a sanctified will and mind.

"Like every child of Adam [Jesus] accepted the results of the working of the great law of heredity." (7A 452)

"His human nature was created; it did not even possess the angelic powers. It was human, identical with our own." (3SM 129)

"He had not taken on Him even the nature of the angels, but humanity, perfectly identical with our own nature, except without the taint of sin." (16MR 181)

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by Rick H. 04/14/24 08:00 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:07 AM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by Daryl. 04/05/24 12:04 PM
Destruction of Canadian culture
by ProdigalOne. 04/05/24 07:46 AM
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 04/01/24 08:10 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 03/31/24 06:44 PM
Easter Sunday, Transgender Day of Visibility?
by dedication. 03/31/24 01:34 PM
The Story of David and Goliath
by TruthinTypes. 03/30/24 12:02 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Kevin H. 03/24/24 09:02 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by ProdigalOne. 04/15/24 09:43 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:31 AM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by dedication. 04/01/24 07:48 PM
Time Is Short!
by ProdigalOne. 03/29/24 10:50 PM
Climate Change and the Sunday Law
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:42 PM
WHAT IS THE VERY END-TIME PROPHECY?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 06:03 PM
Digital Identity Control
by Rick H. 03/23/24 02:08 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1