HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,189
Posts195,525
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 16
kland 15
Daryl 4
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Member Spotlight
Kevin H
Kevin H
New York
Posts: 625
Joined: November 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
3 registered members (Karen Y, 2 invisible), 2,795 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
"Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9214
04/16/02 03:14 AM
04/16/02 03:14 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
2 Corinthians 7
1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

2 Peter 1
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

What does "perfecting holiness" mean? Does it mean becoming less and less imperfect? or does it mean becoming more and more mature in the fruit of the Spirit?


Re: "Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9215
04/17/02 03:18 AM
04/17/02 03:18 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
And how long does it take?

Is it instanteous, or the work of a lifetime?


Re: "Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9216
04/16/02 04:20 PM
04/16/02 04:20 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
How long does what take? Are you referring to the part where 1) the Spirit influences us to lay aside "all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" and "the corruption that is in the world through lust" or are you referring to the part where 2) the Spirit empowers us to "be partakers of divine nature... perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord"?

Or do you think the two happen simultaneously? That is, do you think the Bible and the SOP teach the Spirit of God empowers us to perfect holiness by laying aside our defects of character? In other words, is laying aside sin and perfecting holiness one and the same thing? or are they two separate aspects of salvation?

If we read 2 Cor 7:1 and 2 Peter 1:4 exactly the way they're written it is clear that the Holy Spirit first influences us to lay aside our moral defects of character and then we experience the miracle of rebirth. Our old man habits of sin must first die before we can be born again a new man in Christ Jesus. We cannot be both at the same time. "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Mat 6:24. "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom 8:9.

2 Cor 7:1 says "let us cleanse ourselves" and then we can begin the process of "perfecting holiness." By the way, it is important to notice that the promise involves perfecting "holiness." It does not involve becoming less sinful. Perfecting holiness has nothing to do with sin. Jesus is the best example of perfecting holiness. It has to do with maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. Perfecting holiness is perfecting "holiness," just like righteousness by faith is "righteousness" by faith. Neither have anything to do with sin.

And 2 Peter 1:4 says "having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." In other words, born again believers partake of the divine nature after the Spirit has influenced them to lay aside their old man habits of sin. It doesn't say we partake of the divine nature and then we will be able to crucify self. Rather it says "having escaped" - which is past tense. First the Spirit influences us to lay aside our imperfections and then we can start partaking of the divine nature to perfect holiness in the same way Jesus did.

How long does it take? The part about perfecting holiness is the work of a lifetime (including eternal life). But the part about the Spirit influencing us to cleanse ourselves from all our defects of character can happen in a matter of months, depending on how sincere and devoted we are. Jesus promised - "According to your faith be it unto you." Mat 9:29.

If you understand these texts in a different way, please explain.

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]


Re: "Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9217
04/16/02 04:51 PM
04/16/02 04:51 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
"Perfecting holiness" implies there are degrees of holiness. Several people have asked in other threads - If you are already holy then how can there be room for growth? Perfecting holiness obviously has nothing to do with sin, otherwise it would say something like - Perfecting sinlessness. Therefore, it must have something to do with maturing in the fruits of the Spirit.

Jesus Himself perfected holiness, thus it is very clear that it has nothing to do with sinning or gradually out growing known or unknown defective traits of character. Instead the Bible talks about born again believers living from "faith to faith" and from "glory to glory" and "grace for grace" - and not from sin to sin until we cease to sin.

It's an upward way, not a downward path. Self is first gradually laid aside (as fast as the Spirit leads) until we are born again, and then we begin growing in grace just like baby Jesus. It is plain to see that perfecting holiness has to do with maturing in the fruits of the Spirit "as a light that shineth more and more unto the perfect day." Prov 4:18.

Romans
1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

2 Corinthians
3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

John
1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]


Re: "Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9218
04/18/02 03:34 AM
04/18/02 03:34 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The idea that "perfecting holiness" (2 Cor 7:1) means sinning less and less until we "cease from sin" (1 Peter 4:1) is unbiblical. Please, would someone show from the Bible or the SOP that sanctification is the lifelong work of discovering unknown defects of character until we cease to sin?

Re: "Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9219
04/19/02 04:45 PM
04/19/02 04:45 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
It is commonly believed among most MSDAOL members and visitors that sanctification is the work of a lifetime. And most also believe that this work involves gradually out growing our moral unknown defects of character. And most also believe God is responsible for perpetuating these so-called unknown moral imperfections until He thinks we're ready to confront and conquer them. And most believe that it takes a lifetime for God to expose them and to empower us to lay them aside.

If this is true, then why doesn't the Bible and SOP make it clear? Please, would someone please show from the Bible or SOP this view of salvation and sanctification!


Re: "Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9220
04/20/02 10:53 PM
04/20/02 10:53 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Mike, I appreciate the things you are sharing on this thread. Why thank you, Mike. You're quite welcome, Mike.

Sometimes I wonder if members and visitors on MSDAOL confuse temptation with sinning. But this need not be the case. Rightly understood being tempted is not sinning. First of all, it's not a sin to be tempted. Right!

Now, how can we tell the difference between being tempted and actually committing sin? Since temtpation begins as a sinful thought and/or feeling, how can we be sure we're not actually guilty of sin?

Again, it's not a sin to be tempted, and since temptation begins as a sinful thought and/or feeling the initial sinful thought or feeling is not a sin. But here's where I believe so many people fail to make the distinction between sin and temptation.

People assume they are guilty of sin because they have a sinful thought or feeling in their mind. When in reality it is only a temptation. It does not become a sin until we indulge it. Until then it is only a temptation. But many people think it is a sin to have a sinful thought or feeling in their mind, and they seem to forget that that's how temptation begins.

Based on this misunderstanding I believe people reject the truth about conversion and rebirth. They misidentify the presence of these tempting thoughts and feelings as a defect of character. And they also mistakenly assume that when they are perfect they will not experience tempting sinful thoughts and feelings.

To justify this obvious discrepancy, they conclude that it is not possible to be morally perfect now. Why? Because they are still experiencing sinful thoughts and feelings - which they believe constitutes a moral imperfection. It is this error that prevents them from experiencing the promises of perfection now. And I believe many of the MSDAOL members and visitors are guilty of this doctrinal error.

[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]


Re: "Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9221
04/23/02 03:26 AM
04/23/02 03:26 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Can anyone relate to the last few posts?

Re: "Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9222
04/25/02 02:47 PM
04/25/02 02:47 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
My Life Today, page 54, paragraph 3
Goodness is the result of divine power transforming human nature. By believing in Christ, the fallen race he has redeemed may obtain that faith which works by love and purifies the soul from all defilement. Then Christlike attributes appear: for by beholding Christ men become changed into the same image from glory to glory, from character to character. Good fruit is produced. The character is fashioned after the divine similitude, and integrity, uprightness, and true benevolence are manifested toward the sinful race.

Re: "Perfecting holiness..." (2 Cor 7:1). What does it mean? #9223
05/03/02 10:59 PM
05/03/02 10:59 PM
Avalee  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2014

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
quote:
In Heavenly Places
Page 159, paragraph 6
Building with God

The precious graces of the Holy Spirit are not developed in a moment. Courage, fortitude, meekness, faith, unwavering trust in God's power to save, are acquired by the experience of years. By a life of holy endeavor and firm adherence to the right the children of God are to seal their destiny.


I ran across this while doing a search on meekness.


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 03/27/24 09:35 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Kevin H. 03/24/24 09:02 PM
The Story of David and Goliath
by ProdigalOne. 03/23/24 08:06 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 03/22/24 10:17 AM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by kland. 03/21/24 12:34 PM
The Value of Bible Types
by TruthinTypes. 03/17/24 06:22 PM
Orion Which Every One on the Globe Can See
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:26 PM
'Prophet' Summons UFOs
by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 02:19 AM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by dedication. 03/11/24 06:31 PM
Get That Razor Wire Up!
by kland. 03/05/24 12:49 PM
Messages for This Time
by ProdigalOne. 03/04/24 05:54 AM
The Lake of Fire is Hell
by Rick H. 03/02/24 05:01 PM
Adventist Agriculture
by kland. 02/29/24 12:33 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by Rick H. 03/27/24 10:36 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:50 PM
Time Is Short!
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:45 PM
Climate Change and the Sunday Law
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:42 PM
WHAT IS THE VERY END-TIME PROPHECY?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 06:03 PM
Digital Identity Control
by Rick H. 03/23/24 02:08 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 01:59 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 08:38 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:30 PM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by Kevin H. 03/12/24 09:20 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Daryl. 03/04/24 06:14 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1