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Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #199279
12/10/25 09:56 PM
12/10/25 09:56 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Joined: Apr 2004
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2nd trumpet

This one is very relevant for today. We see the movement of religion seeking to unite with government power, thinking to enforce law (God's law) is the answer.

The second trumpet is about a great mountain -- a great nation

Jeremiah 51:24 And I will render unto Babylon...against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Babylon is symbolic of powerful church/state control in Revelation. (Revelation 17 and 18)
During the early Christian centuries the cryptic word "Babylon" appears commonly in both Jewish and Christian writings when referring to the city and empire of Rome.(1 Peter 5:13)

In Daniel, Rome is quite a central subject. It's that terrible beast out of which the horn emerges. The horn was "groomed" by the Roman Empire, but didn't come into full power until the western Roman Empire, --like a great burning mountain -- fell.

This union between Imperial Rome and the Church was first established back in 313 AD.

Daniel 11:23 And after (that is sometime after Jerusalem was destroyed in vs 22) the league was made with him he shall work deceitfully: (the Roman Empire made a league with Christianity) for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people. (Constantine saw it as a link to unite people into a more unified empire).

Christianity, in years following, grew to be the state religion in the Roman Empire, the sword had entered the church which now claimed to have "two swords" one ecclesiastic, the other civil power.
The Roman Empire was now supposedly "Christian".

But religion is not a matter of government enforcement. It always leads to persecution, trying to corral everyone into one mindset to unite the empire. It does not lead to true heart unity with our Savior and Redeemer.
The supposed Christian empire was very corrupt. Basically just as pagan as always, just with imposed rules that had a Christian flavor.

Rev. 8:8-9 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Sea = people (Rev. 17:15)
Rome was over run by hordes (a sea) of Barbarians, The Vandals, the Goths, the Huns, all left ruin and desolation, blood, and destruction.
And yes, control of the Mediterranean Sea was a huge part of the battles. A lot of ships went down, a lot of sailors died.
439 CE, The Vandal Fleet conquered Sicily, Malta, Sardinia and Corsica.
455 CE, the Vandal Fleet arrived off the Italian coast, and embarked on the Second Sack of Rome
461 CE, Battle of Cartagena. The Vandal fleet destroys a West Roman Fleet.
468 CE, Battle of Cape Bon. The Vandal fleet defeats a combine East and West Roman Fleet
476 CE, The Western Roman Empire falls.
The Vandals have control of the Mediterranean sea routes.

Ships symbolize a nation's power and self-sufficiency, the Western Roman downfall was hugely devastating to its economic and social order.

True, the eastern Empire was still there and they were able to push back against the Vandals and Goths later, and help the papacy get seated in power in Rome in 538. But they too were too weak to support the west for any length of time and retired to the east .
By 476 the Western Roman Empire was gone.

So what is the message in all this?

In our day, Christian Nationalism is on the rise in the most powerful nation on earth:
Christian Nationalism in America is the belief that the United States is, or should be, a "Christian" nation. They aren't content with people in America who, on their own initiative attend Christian churches if they so choose, Christian Nationalists believe the government should actively support, prioritize, and, where the need supposedly arises, enforce Christian beliefs and practices.

Revelation 13 predicts this rise -- a beast with two horns like a lamb, will start to enforce religion. Just like in Constantine's day, many Christians will think joining religion with government power, is a wonderful thing. A return to godly living they conclude. How could that be bad? Why not join? But it's outward, not inward reform. It's agenda is controlled by man, not in reference to God.
And what about obeying God?
With Constantine, Sunday as the day of rest took wings. Supported, too, by the bishop of Rome, who was well on his way to be a Bishop higher than all the other Bishops. Yet there was no "thus says the Lord", as it's foundation.

Again Sunday as the day of rest is on the agenda.

People won't see the danger, till it gets oppressive -- no buying or selling unless one yields to whatever the government thinks is important for this nation. And just like back in 300-450 AD years, the papacy will be increasing and reaching for full control, joining and orchestrating the movement.


But remember the fall of that powerful, seemingly unconquerable Roman empire;
Even so, this mountain of a beast, too, will fall, no matter how powerful with world wide authority and power it may seem to have at any given time, it too will fall.

Worship God, our Creator and Savior.
Acts 5:29 We ought to obey God rather than men.


Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #199287
Yesterday at 04:43 PM
Yesterday at 04:43 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Posts: 7,205
Canada
The first two trumpets-
1. Rejection of the covenant which Christ had come to confirm (and did confirm with His own blood on Calvary). It was largely rejected by the nation that had the promises, that was supposedly waiting for the Messiah to appear. They did not reject their formal religion,but by rejecting Jesus, it was the rejection of that gift of Divine love and key to life and deliverance from sin. That rejection brings very bad results. Because there is only one way of salvation and that is through Christ, all other paths lead to destruction, because sin is destructive.

2. Using the state's civil power to enforce the covenant. The emperor makes a league with the Christians, and then we find an emperor "chairing" religious councils and decision making gatherings of church officials and using his power to enforce whatever decisions were made (and some of his own). The emperor was grooming the Roman bishop into his likeness, to take over his seat. The bishops and people think this is a blessing when in reality it was a huge step into apostacy.
The wall between church and state was cast down. The state had placed himself as the guardian of the church. But the mountain with it's massive military power over the then known world was also cast down. Like a burning Mountain cast into the sea of humanity.
This is a very important warning for today.

3. The bitter waters --
THIRD TRUMPET

Rev. 8:10-11 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.


Jesus came to give people the water of life. He sent His Holy Spirit to guide people into truth. But now, what looked like water, and was professing to be dispensing God's Word, was bitter, the covenant of God was being covered by poisoned water.


Remember, stars in Revelation symbolize leaders of the church.
Rev. 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, ... The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches:
2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write;
2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write;
2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos writ
e;


The one who became regarded as the greatest leader of the church, declared to be head over all the churches by the law of Justinian, who was now sitting in the seat of Rome, wasn't dispensing the water of life anymore, but bitter water.

There are also two sources -- The True Witness writing to the "stars" the leaders of the churches, calling for repentance and overcoming in His name, giving them the water of life. There is also another spirit coming from the original fallen star who wages constant war against Christ and truth, sending wrong influences to cause the church to stumble off the path of truth, dispensing bitter water.

The message?
Are we drinking the living water coming to us, from Christ and His covenant and gift of grace and cleansing. Or are we drinking the bitter water, that is available all around us?


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