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Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets
[Re: dedication]
#198664
03/31/25 11:50 AM
03/31/25 11:50 AM
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SDA Active Member 2025
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,583
Midland
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Had you addressed what you think Ellen White means by, "Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded"?
The battle of Armageddon will be fought. And that day must find none of us sleeping. Wide awake we must be, as wise virgins having oil in our vessels with our lamps. The power of the Holy Ghost must be upon us and the Captain of the Lord's host will stand at the head of the angels of heaven to direct the battle. Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded; vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. Scenes of stupendous interest are right upon us and these things will be sure indications of the presence of Him who has directed in every aggressive movement, who has accompanied the march of His cause through all the ages, and who has graciously pledged Himself to be with His people in all their conflicts to the end of the world. He will vindicate His truth. He will cause it to triumph. He is ready to supply His faithful ones with motives and power of purpose, inspiring them with hope and courage and valor in increased activity as the time is at hand. {3SM 426.1}
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Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets
[Re: dedication]
#198667
04/01/25 03:28 PM
04/01/25 03:28 PM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2024
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,901
Canada
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Trumpet after trumpet -- yes, all the evil that has accumulated over the centuries will be active in the last days. The historic trumpets reveal the battle, and the real issues. It's all focused on Christ and His Word, against forces of evil. He has witnessed and warned against "every aggressive movement", and has "accompanied the march of His cause through all the ages,". That's what the trumpets are "the march" of both exposing the enemy, and " the march of His cause through all the ages", 1. Fall of Jerusalem. People haven't changed much, and in the last days continue to depend on forms and rituals -- see the result in the first trumpet way back in the first century. The warning didn't cease in 70 AD. 2. Christianity unites with Rome, Western Rome falls. People will link the "main" religion with the state, to enforce it's beliefs, -- see the result in the second trumpet. 3. Pollution of pure doctrines People will accept papal doctrines in place of the life giving truth of God's Word, -- it's the cumulative result in the third trumpet as truth becomes "wormwood". 4. Paganism has entered the church, spiritual darkness -- dark ages commences. People will experience darkness because God's Word is replace by man's mandates -- see the result in the fourth trumpet. Though Christ has sent shafts of light to dispel the darkness, that darkness is still very much present in the world, and is intensifying. 5. Fall of the Byzantine Empire The last call to repentance is overwhelmed with "locusts" as it was for the Byzantine empire standing at the very door of being destroyed, yet they held on to it's delusions and would not repent. It is the warning of the fifth trumpet. Clouds of locusts always come from satan's agents to block out the light. Again its just the cumulative result the fifth trumpet warned and is still warning. 6. In the sixth trumpet four angels released messages, truth becomes known and available for study, the reformation brings more truth to light, but there is much blood shed, religious wars, persecution, -- the French Revolution at the end of the 6th trumpet gave a glimpse as to the result of fully pushing aside God's clear Word and depending upon man made reason. The spirit behind the French Revolution is very much alive still. 7. The seventh trumpet the saints are vindicated as citizens of the New Jerusalem and though the nations are in turbulence, Christ is taking His kingdom and his saints will be delivered when Christ comes..
It is NOT prophecy repeating, it is all the dangers predicted and announced and demonstrated by the trumpets throughout the Christian era, reaching and displaying the result of what was built up throughout the those ages.
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Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets
[Re: dedication]
#198670
04/02/25 07:12 PM
04/02/25 07:12 PM
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SDA Active Member 2025
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 645
New York
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Mrs. White tells us that we will not fully understand what the mark of the beast will be until the unrolling of the scroll. Now the unrolling of the scroll is when the 7th seal is broken, and this is when the trumpets start. Mrs. White wrote this, and it was only revealed to her, long after Uriah Smith wrote Daniel and Revelation and the development of the traditions. Most of us have not yet caught up to her.
Again, in college this was brought together with the possibility that the trumpets are the little time of trouble where saints who will not make it through the difficulties of the time of trouble will be put to sleep, but their lives and death will be soul winning, and things will push into the latter rain and close of probation. Then the plagues are the great time of trouble after the close of probation. While none others are able to convert, no more of the saints will die.
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Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets
[Re: dedication]
#198672
04/06/25 12:45 AM
04/06/25 12:45 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,901
Canada
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Mrs. White tells us that we will not fully understand what the mark of the beast will be until the unrolling of the scroll. Now the unrolling of the scroll is when the 7th seal is broken, and this is when the trumpets start. That is a futurist explanation which is quite popular in the world, but EGW places those first six trumpets in the past. We are in the seventh trumpet. Actually EGW is very sure of what the Mark of the beast will be, we may not know all the details, but we can know what it is all about, and she does NOT say that's when the seven trumpets start. She stresses the urgency to loudly proclaim the message now. Here's the quote: The light we have received upon the third angel's message is the true light. The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. Not all in regard to this matter is yet understood, nor will it be understood until the unrolling of the scroll; but a most solemn work is to be accomplished in our world. The Lord's command to His servants is: "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." Isaiah 58:1. A message that will arouse the churches is to be proclaimed. Every effort is to be made to give the light, not only to our people, but to the world.{6T 17.1} {8T 159.3} Why would there be trumpets after the sixth seal? There are no trumpets after the second coming. Yet the second coming happens at the end of the sixth seal, when the sky rolls back like a scroll, and all the mountains and islands are moved out of place, when the unsaved rush for the mountains in an attempt to hide from Christ's glorious appearing, ( Rev. 6:17 "For the great day of his wrath is come" and the saved stand with white robes before the throne. (Rev 7:9 I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude,.. stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands" The sixth seal is Christ's second coming. We believe without a doubt that Christ is soon to come; and believing this we feel a necessity upon us to plead with men and women to prepare for the coming of the Son of Man. We do not want that any of you should be of that number who shall call for rocks and mountains to fall on them to hide them from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. {RH, April 12, 1870 par. 4} . The seventh seal is silence. Not trumpets. It's quite possible that we will understand more fully the implications of the forces against Christ, once we get to heaven and can look back in the heavenly books to see God's call, and see the full scope and terribleness of man's rebellion and satan's ambition to destroy them. But it's by studying each vision revealed as each seal is removed that we can with certainty, know NOW what the mark of the beast is about, even if we don't know all the details as to just how it will be enforced. That scroll is pretty near completely open NOW, enough so we can recognize the mark when it is enforced, there will be no excuse for not knowing. The first six trumpets also show the build up leading to the mark of the beast. The actual mark of the beast comes into play before the second coming, and before the close of probation. It's pretty urgent we understand that NOW, as it could happen any day now. When that scroll is fully unrolled the second coming will have taken place, and it will be too late to change. Once Christ comes no humans are left alive on earth. No trumpets will be sounding then. The seventh trumpet began in 1844 and ends with the second coming. It starts with the revelation that Christ is in the most Holy Place before the "Ancient of Days" to receive His kingdom (Compare with Daniel 7:13-14) and God's law in the ark of the testimony is "seen" (Rev. 11:19). It is the last trumpet, with the three angel's messages, announcing the "hour of His judgement has come". It is the third angel's message lifting up God's law, calling people to worship the Creator God, and come out of Babylon away from the beast and his image, and (according to Great Controversy) ends with God revealing that law (no longer in the ark of the testament under the mercy seat) from the heavens and Christ's second coming. (Quoting from the seventh trumpet) ?The temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament.? [Revelation 11:19.] The ark of God's testament is in the holy of holies, the second apartment of the sanctuary. In the ministration of the earthly tabernacle, which served ?unto the example and shadow of heavenly things,? this apartment was opened only upon the great day of atonement, for the cleansing of the sanctuary. Therefore the announcement that the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and the ark of his testament was seen, points to the opening of the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary, in 1844, as Christ entered there to perform the closing work of the atonement {GC88 433.2} {GC 433.1}
As foretold in the Scriptures, the ministration of Christ in the most holy place began at the termination of the prophetic days in 1844. To this time apply the words of the Revelator, (Quoting from the seventh trumpet) "The temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament." Revelation 11:19. The ark of God's testament is in the second apartment of the sanctuary. As Christ entered there, to minister in the sinner's behalf, the inner temple was opened, and the ark of God was brought to view. To those who by faith beheld the Saviour in His work of intercession, God's majesty and power were revealed. As the train of His glory filled the temple, light from the holy of holies was shed upon His waiting people on the earth. {SR 379.2}
Again, "the temple of God was opened," and he looked within the inner veil, upon the holy of holies. Here he beheld, "the ark of His testament," represented by the sacred chest constructed by Moses to contain the law of God. {RH, November 9, 1905 par. 9} In the ministration of the earthly tabernacle, which served "unto the example and shadow of heavenly things," the holy of holies was opened only upon the great day of atonement, the typical day of judgment, set apart for the cleansing of the sanctuary. Therefore the announcement, "The temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament," points to the opening of the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary, at the end of the twenty-three hundred days,--in 1844,--as Christ entered there to perform the closing work of the atonement. {RH, November 9, 1905 par. 10}
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Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets
[Re: dedication]
#198693
04/16/25 07:58 PM
04/16/25 07:58 PM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,901
Canada
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Revelation chapters 10 and 11 mark the transition period ending the sixth trumpet and leading into the seventh. 1798 The papacy lost it's power (revolution in chapter 11) European kings lost their power to a more representative government style. The Ottoman empire lost it's power in 1840 at the end of the 391 years. But something else of great Biblical importance also happened at the end of the sixth trumpet, leading into the main message of the seventh trumpet. We find this in Revelation 10. Rev. 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow upon his head, and his face as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: | A mighty heavenly Messenger. He is surrounded by symbols of the covenant. | This is obviously an important heavenly Being, many believe it is Christ Himself, coming to reveal a very important message. | 10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left [foot] on the earth, | The message according to vs 6 is about "time". The book containing time prophecies, which was sealed until "the time of the end," was the book of Daniel. In Revelation 10 those time lines are open for study and we find they all end by 1844. There are no more definite time lines ahead. What is still ahead? The judgement hour message -- the message of the three angels in Rev. 14. | The time has come for the seventh trumpet to sound: (Rev,11:15) And the seventh angel sounded (Rev.11:18) the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, when (Dan. 7:9-10) the Ancient of days did sit, before him thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.(7:13) the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days. Jesus said, 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. | 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices | The lion of the tribe of Judah will win over the lion that's prowling all over this earth seeking whom he can devour. A lion is symbolic of kingship, power, a ruler, law giver. | As the sixth trumpet ends and the seventh is about to sound, Christ is about to embark on the final work in preparation for His second coming. In the PreAdvent Judgment, confessing all the names of the "overcomers" before the Ancient of Days, finalizing the list of God's redeemed in the book of Life. | Rev. 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. | "The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. In the order of God most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed. {1MR 99.3} | The thunders are placed between the sounding of the sixth and seventh trumpets. EGW tells us it has something to do with Rev, 14's,1st and 2nd angels messages (both of which were proclaimed before 1844, but not fully understood) Understanding would increase "In the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery will be finished." They thought Christ would come in 1844, they understood the time, but they misunderstood the event. Thunders are also linked God's law. There is still a third angel's message, and the seventh trumpet both having to do with God's law needing to be restored. The 2300 days did NOT point to Christ's second coming to earth, they pointed to the sanctuary being cleansed, God's law restored, and Christ being brought before the Ancient of days and the heavenly court to present the names of all the saved. | Rev. 10:7. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servants the prophets." | The seventh trumpet will take earth's history through the last events and on into the great final climax, final victory over sin and into eternal redemption for all who have made their destiny secure in Christ. Though the people taking hold of the little book will suffer great disappointment, they are not to despair, for that final day of victory will come. | The mystery, Eph. 1:9,10: "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he has purposed in himself: that in the dispensation of the fulness of time he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him." | Rev.10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer. | The voice of the 1st Angel of Rev. 14 is heard in this declaration. 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel... Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. | In the closing work of God in the earth, the standard of His law will be again exalted. Prior to 1844 there was well-nigh universal disregard of the Sabbath commandment in the Christian world. That part of the 1st angel's message was not yet understood. Also the 2nd angel's message: Babylon is fallen is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" was only partially understood prior to 1844. Thunders are connected with God's broken commandments. The loudest thunder roars in the 3rd angel's message. In 1844 God did not yet have a people who kept His commandments while they honored the beasts' day and disregarded the sanctified day. | Rev. 10:8-10 Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth....Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey...So I ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. | Study the timelines, they will show we are at the "time of the end", you will find the message sweet, but you will misunderstand and be bitterly disappointed, | That's what happened in 1844. How sweet the thought that Christ was coming to cleanse the earth and take them home to heaven that October in 1844. But they failed to realize there were more prophecies that needed to be fulfilled in the "time of the end" in preparation for the second coming. | Rev. 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. | God had more to teach them. The three angel's messages still had to be fully understood and shared with the world. | And the seventh trumpet pointed them to heaven and the sanctuary there where they saw the ark of the testament. (11:19) | 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. | The hour of His judgment has come. The work is going on in the heavenly court. In vision on the Isle of Patmos John said: ", Arise and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." | This solemn work also needs to be done upon the earth. Surrender your life fully to Him, and the Lord will empower you that you may daily gain new victories, His righteousness will fill your life when you chose to follow Him, and you will finally enter the city of God, as those who have overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony.
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