Mike:
I have been following along but would you put your views of the historical application of the trumpets down, and then your future application right after it so that I can see them all together at one time? I would like to see them and then see if I have any comments.
Thanks

Greg, I have already shared these thoughts in some detail under Search for Truth - Separate Yet Similiar Views of Prophecy. I don't know how to link it here. Perhaps one of the moderators can do that. Otherwise, it shouldn't take too much time to go straight there from here. I welcome your comments and questions.

There are a couple threads on this topic that I want to review again and depending on the outcome, I may create a topic in the New Light forum. For now I just want to bring this forward and review it and see what others think about this.

I believe the following is appropriate for this thread:

quote:

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“When the fifth seal was opened, John the Revelator in vision saw beneath the altar the company that were slain for the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. After this came the scenes described in the eighteenth of Revelation, when those who are faithful and true are called out from Babylon [Rev. 18: 15 quoted] (MS 39, 1906). S.D.A. B.C. Vol. 7, p 968, par. 5.

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The Jews would recognize the sounding of the seven trumpets as God’s LOUD CALL TO REPENTANCE, which we would compare to the LOUD CRY of Revelation 18 in the midst of massive destruction and confusion.

quote:

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“The Talmud teaches that the blowing of the trumpets signifies GOD’S LOUD CALL TO REPENTANCE.” Practical Lessons, p. 253 by F. C. Gilbert. (Comment on Leviticus 23:23-25, which is actually BEFORE the Day of Atonement; but may have application to the 7 trumpets of Revelation.)

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We find reference to God’s SEALED ones during the time when the trumpets are sounding—as in Revelation 9:1-4. Surely that cannot apply to people during past centuries.

Then the four winds are released as the sixth trumpet sounds (Revelation 9:13-16) and an army of 200-million is released to kill and destroy. That number represented the total world population at the time of the vision, and may be a symbol of worldwide conflict in the future:

quote:

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“Events are changing to bring about the day of God, which hasteth greatly. Only a moment of time, as it were, yet remains. But while already nation is rising against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, there is not now a general engagement. As yet the four winds are held until the servants of God shall be sealed in their foreheads. Then the powers of earth will marshal their forces for the last great battle. Satan is busily laying his plans for the last mighty conflict, WHEN ALL WILL TAKE SIDES.” 6T 14.

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Thanks Stan. I'm going to open a topic now in the NL forum and use your post as the main part of the introduction. Hope to see you and the rest of the forum there.

Stan wrote - "We find reference to God’s SEALED ones during the time when the trumpets are sounding—as in Revelation 9:1-4. Surely that cannot apply to people during past centuries."

Symbolically it can and must, otherwise the basis of our historical view of prophecy would receive a deadly wound. When the angel said "Thou must prophesy again... [but] that there should be time no longer" (Rev 10:11,6) we must understand this instruction to mean the seals and trumpets have a dual, future application beginning in 1844 and ending with the return of Jesus.

Greetings

I have not been here a long time, Some think Ellen G White fully endorced Uriah Smiths Book, however she politely counseled against it. The messages where they are correct are of value where they are not then they must be passed over.

Regarding the Seven Seals she contradicted him, stating that they begin at Creation rather than at the time of his placement. One can safely conclude that the Trumpets begin there also. Both Come from the inner workings of the Judgement scene of Reve. 4 and 5. see her position here.

The Book With Seven Seals Contains the History of the World.-- "And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon" (Revelation 5:1-3). {9MR 7.1}
There in His open hand lay the book, the roll of the history of God's providences, the prophetic history of nations and the church. Herein was contained the divine utterances, His authority, His commandments, His laws, the whole symbolic counsel of the Eternal, and the history of all ruling powers in the nations. In symbolic language was contained in that roll the influence of every nation, tongue, and people from the beginning of earth's history to its close. {9MR 7.2}
This roll was written within and without. John says: [Revelation 5:4, 5, 8-14; 6:8-11; 8:1-4; quoted.] {9MR 7.3}
The same spirit is seen today that is represented in Revelation 6:6-8. History is to be repeated. That which has been will be again.--Letter 65, 1898, pp. 6-9, 12. (To Brethren Griggs and Howe, August 23, 1898.) {9MR 7.4}

The same spirit in her subtle undermining of Uriah Smith is found in this statement also.

"The Bible must not be interpreted to suit the ideas of men, however long they may have held these ideas to be true. We are not to accept the opinion of commentators as the voice of God; they were erring mortals like ourselves. God has given reasoning powers to us as well as to them. We should make the Bible its own expositor." {TM 106.2}

Uriah Smiths work is filled with the opinions of the leading commentators of his day. Men and women who were not inspired. The original title of Uriah's book was the "Thoughts and opinions on DAniel and Revelation by Uriah Smith." His writings have become gospel. He openly at times disagreed with Mrs Whites positions regarding prophetic interpretation and had to be edited because of at least 40 errors that were found prior to his death. While Mrs White seemingly endorced the Book it too, must be measured by the Scriptures. And since the scenes under discussion emanate for the Judgement scene of the Sanctuary, then it also must be part of the Investigative Judgment just as the seven seals are. One showing forth the sealing of the righteous from Adam to the giving of the Loud Cry of Rev. 18, the other judgements poured out upon those who were not sealed in every age that a message was poured out. See GC. 609.

Whitlie

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EGW name correction only - Daryl

[ November 29, 2003, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]

Mike lowe

Why could not people in past generations have been sealed. Did they not settle into the truth that they had in their day, consider this quote from the Pen of Inspiration.

Different periods in the history of the church have each been marked by the development of some special truth, adapted to the necessities of God's people at that time. Every new truth has made its way against hatred and opposition; those who were blessed with its light were tempted and tried. The Lord gives a special truth for the people in an emergency. Great Controversy page 609

Ephesians 1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,

Ephesians 4:30 and make not sorrowful the Holy Spirit of God, in which ye were sealed to a day of redemption.

The sealing is about people in every age of the earths history who have lived up to the light that they receive, and were sealed into that gospel.

That is what the Investigative judgement is about to show of the jewels Malachi 3:16. Zeph. 3:11.

Whitlie, welcome. Yeah, I agree with you that not everything Uriah Smith wrote on prophecy is applicable today. But as far as the 7 trumpets Sister White clearly endorsed Josiah Litch's interpretation. Perhaps you overlooked this passage in GC?

The Great Controversy

In the year 1840 another remarkable fulfillment of prophecy excited widespread interest. Two years before, Josiah Litch, one of the leading ministers preaching the second advent, published an exposition of Revelation 9, predicting the fall of the Ottoman Empire. According to his calculations, this power was to be overthrown "in A.D. 1840, sometime in the month of August;" and only a few days previous to its accomplishment he wrote: "Allowing the first period, 150 years, to have been exactly fulfilled before Deacozes ascended the throne by permission of the Turks, and that the 391 years, fifteen days, commenced at the close of the first period, it will end on the 11th of August, 1840, when the Ottoman power in Constantinople may be expected to be broken. And this, I believe, will be found to be the case."--Josiah Litch, in Signs of the Times, and Expositor of Prophecy, Aug. 1, 1840. {GC 334.4}

At the very time specified, Turkey, through her ambassadors, accepted the protection of the allied powers of Europe, and thus placed herself under the control of Christian nations. The event exactly fulfilled the prediction. (See Appendix.) When it became known, multitudes were convinced of the correctness of the principles of prophetic interpretation adopted by Miller and his associates, and a wonderful impetus was given to the advent movement. Men of learning and position united with Miller, both in preaching and in publishing his views, and from 1840 to 1844 the work rapidly extended. {GC 335.1}

Whitlie, I also agree that the sealing symbolism in the Bible is not limited to the final sealing of the 144,000. Before the translation generation of believers can be sealed with "the seal of the living God" (i.e. Rev 7) they must have first settled into the truth so that they cannot be moved. But we must not assume the sealing mentioned in Bible is always the same sealing. There is a sealing process all must enter, but then there's the sealing of the 144,000 that only they will experience.

PS - Please read the post on the bottom of page 2.

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As a result of removing a duplicate post, this post is now on the bottom of page 2. - Daryl

[ November 29, 2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]