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Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Alchemy] #180948
07/06/16 12:37 PM
07/06/16 12:37 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
kland wrote;

"Just like individuals cannot borrow their way out of debt, nations cannot either." (bold emphasis mine)

I agree completely that you can't borrow your way out of debt. So, can someone pay down and pay off that debt? Of course! But, what does that take? Hard currency or cash.

I can't see it any other way.

In the current Mystery Babylon complicate system(see video above) with the Federal Reserve charging interest (==USURY : God's perfect economic system forbids usury). A Usury based system makes it IMPOSSIBLE for most (if any at all as today all nations are in debt including the USA and all Europe) nations to pay all back their debt.

That's why Babylon's system is known as a DEBT system that doesn't WORK. Not that they wanted in their system to work -- for the nations to pay off their debt. They had planned from the beginning to put all nations in debt; so that at the end they could RULE over all nations and keep them as PERPETUAL SLAVES. Well, the end part of Mystery Babylon's plan isn't in God's plan.

The Lord did allow this Beast System to rule for a time and to in-debt all the nations. The Lord will use Babylon's failure so that the nations could come to see that a usury type of Banking system doesn't work. The Lord is ripening the nations so that they would come to consider God's perfect economical system describe in the law. God plan to establish all His laws in His Kingdom and have His Saints of the Most High to rule( to shepherd is the Biblical definition of ruling) with Christ.

Does anyone know how God's economic system works? This is something that we Christian should study.


Blessings
Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Elle] #180951
07/06/16 12:50 PM
07/06/16 12:50 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
kland wrote;

"Just like individuals cannot borrow their way out of debt, nations cannot either." (bold emphasis mine)

I agree completely that you can't borrow your way out of debt. So, can someone pay down and pay off that debt? Of course! But, what does that take? Hard currency or cash.

I can't see it any other way.

In the current Mystery Babylon complicate system(see video above) with the Federal Reserve charging interest (==USURY : God's perfect economic system forbids usury). A Usury based system makes it IMPOSSIBLE for most (if any at all as today all nations are in debt including the USA and all Europe) nations to pay all back their debt.

That's why Babylon's system is known as a DEBT system that doesn't WORK. Not that they wanted in their system to work -- for the nations to pay off their debt. They had planned from the beginning to put all nations in debt; so that at the end they could RULE over all nations and keep them as PERPETUAL SLAVES. Well, the end part of Mystery Babylon's plan isn't in God's plan.

The Lord did allow this Beast System to rule for a time and to in-debt all the nations. The Lord will use Babylon's failure so that the nations could come to see that a usury type of Banking system doesn't work. The Lord is ripening the nations so that they would come to consider God's perfect economical system describe in the law. God plan to establish all His laws in His Kingdom and have His Saints of the Most High to rule( to shepherd is the Biblical definition of ruling) with Christ.

Does anyone know how God's economic system works? This is something that we Christian should study.


Excellent post, Elle.

I agree that the Bible forbids usury, or interest. I can easily see that interest is of no use in our economy today. So, to end usury would be a great thing. But, I really don't know how that would work.

To answer your question; No, I really don't know exactly how God's type of economy would work.

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Alchemy] #180962
07/07/16 08:29 PM
07/07/16 08:29 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,499
Midland
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
kland wrote;

"Just like individuals cannot borrow their way out of debt, nations cannot either." (bold emphasis mine)

I agree completely that you can't borrow your way out of debt. So, can someone pay down and pay off that debt? Of course! But, what does that take? Hard currency or cash.

I can't see it any other way.
No. Hard work.

The reason people are in debt is because they want things without working for it. To get out of debt, to pay off debt, the only way is by working. Gold, notes, IOUs are only symbols of that work. Unless you steal it.

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: kland] #180967
07/08/16 12:01 AM
07/08/16 12:01 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Quote:
Kland : "Just like individuals cannot borrow their way out of debt, nations cannot either." (bold emphasis mine)

Alchemy : I agree completely that you can't borrow your way out of debt. So, can someone pay down and pay off that debt? Of course! But, what does that take? Hard currency or cash.

I can't see it any other way.

Kland: No. Hard work.

The reason people are in debt is because they want things without working for it. To get out of debt, to pay off debt, the only way is by working. Gold, notes, IOUs are only symbols of that work. Unless you steal it.

Kland, it's not as simplistic as you say. There are such things as brainwashing a society that they need all this stuff that they really don't need and giving them a credit card and easy loans and etc....

You seem to not be aware of the debt system that is design to in-debt a nation. For sure some individuals can pay off their debt and stay debt free. But not the nations as a whole; it is impossible. Watch the video. You will see what I mean.


Blessings
Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Alchemy] #180968
07/08/16 12:16 AM
07/08/16 12:16 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
I agree that the Bible forbids usury, or interest. I can easily see that interest is of no use in our economy today. So, to end usury would be a great thing. But, I really don't know how that would work.

To answer your question; No, I really don't know exactly how God's type of economy would work.

We need to know how the Lord's economy laws and system work; so we can implement them in our own business dealings and teach these to our neighbors and make an outcry when our government breaks these divine laws in our country.

For example, Christians and Islamic nations has demanded that the NO USURY law was respected in the world as long as the late 1700s or 1800s. Usury was only introduced just recently in the Western world because Christians has lost the awareness of this law and didn't sounded their objection when it was introduced.

If you would like, we can study these by extracting them from the law. If so, then maybe start another discussion or branch this topic in this discussion since it is closely related.


Blessings
Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: kland] #180980
07/10/16 07:15 AM
07/10/16 07:15 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
kland wrote;

"Just like individuals cannot borrow their way out of debt, nations cannot either." (bold emphasis mine)

I agree completely that you can't borrow your way out of debt. So, can someone pay down and pay off that debt? Of course! But, what does that take? Hard currency or cash.

I can't see it any other way.
No. Hard work.

The reason people are in debt is because they want things without working for it. To get out of debt, to pay off debt, the only way is by working. Gold, notes, IOUs are only symbols of that work. Unless you steal it.


I don't have any issue with people working smart and hard to gain a return on their labor. But, I don't believe payment is an adequate symbol of that labor.

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Elle] #180981
07/10/16 07:16 AM
07/10/16 07:16 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
I agree that the Bible forbids usury, or interest. I can easily see that interest is of no use in our economy today. So, to end usury would be a great thing. But, I really don't know how that would work.

To answer your question; No, I really don't know exactly how God's type of economy would work.

We need to know how the Lord's economy laws and system work; so we can implement them in our own business dealings and teach these to our neighbors and make an outcry when our government breaks these divine laws in our country.

For example, Christians and Islamic nations has demanded that the NO USURY law was respected in the world as long as the late 1700s or 1800s. Usury was only introduced just recently in the Western world because Christians has lost the awareness of this law and didn't sounded their objection when it was introduced.

If you would like, we can study these by extracting them from the law. If so, then maybe start another discussion or branch this topic in this discussion since it is closely related.


Just to touch on one point I would be concerned with; I can't see instituting the Jubilee! Do you?

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Elle] #180982
07/11/16 01:54 PM
07/11/16 01:54 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,499
Midland
Originally Posted By: Elle
Quote:
Kland : "Just like individuals cannot borrow their way out of debt, nations cannot either." (bold emphasis mine)

Alchemy : I agree completely that you can't borrow your way out of debt. So, can someone pay down and pay off that debt? Of course! But, what does that take? Hard currency or cash.

I can't see it any other way.

Kland: No. Hard work.

The reason people are in debt is because they want things without working for it. To get out of debt, to pay off debt, the only way is by working. Gold, notes, IOUs are only symbols of that work. Unless you steal it.

Kland, it's not as simplistic as you say. There are such things as brainwashing a society that they need all this stuff that they really don't need and giving them a credit card and easy loans and etc....
Brainwashed or not, the issue is the same: People want things without working for it.

Quote:

You seem to not be aware of the debt system that is design to in-debt a nation. For sure some individuals can pay off their debt and stay debt free. But not the nations as a whole; it is impossible. Watch the video. You will see what I mean.
I disagree. But will watch the video if it's not that Jim Willie or whoever with the donkey.

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Alchemy] #180983
07/11/16 01:55 PM
07/11/16 01:55 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,499
Midland
Originally Posted By: Alchemy

I don't have any issue with people working smart and hard to gain a return on their labor. But, I don't believe payment is an adequate symbol of that labor.
What would you consider an adequate symbol of that labor?

Re: Does anyone really know how the economy works now? [Re: Alchemy] #181012
07/14/16 05:18 PM
07/14/16 05:18 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Just to touch on one point I would be concerned with; I can't see instituting the Jubilee! Do you?

Yes I do. And not only me but many economist, financial and political experts thinks so too. I think it is the only solution if you seek to bring restoration after an unjust tyrannical debt system that enslaved the inhabitants of the world.

1. Here's a reasonable suggestion how to implement a Jubilee with the US treasury Bonds [debt note that is worthless] posted recently in another discussion :Jubilee Solution proposed by Helen Brown

2. Two Historical TYPES with many Jubilee elements was implement in the past after a destruction of a kingdom. I believe these are TYPES(prophecy) of things to come.

....a) The Jubilee type at the Exodus of Egypt : Egypt not only had the Israelites as slaves, but had made many others from other nations as slaves. Their economic rested on the production of their slaves. Today's Mystery Babylon's system is similar (see video above) but it is more deceiving making the slaves unaware that they are slaves. When the Lord freed the Egyptian slaves; they did not come out empty handed but with the "spoils" of Egypt.

AV Ex 3:21 And I will give this people favour in the sight of the Egyptians: and it shall come to pass, that, when ye go, ye shall not go empty: 22 But every woman shall borrow of her neighbour, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and ye shall put [them] upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and ye shall spoil the Egyptians.

....b). After the Fall of Babylon in 537 BC : We are told that the captives nations, including the nation of Judah, were free to return to their homeland after the collapse of Babylon. Plus we are told that Cyrus funded the restoration of the nations cities and temples as accounted for in the Bible for the nation of Judah in the book of Ezra.

One place this account is found is in the clay cylinder of Cyrus telling of his Babylonian conquest. Here's a summary of it :

Quote:
This clay cylinder is inscribed in Babylonian cuneiform with an account by Cyrus, king of Persia (559-530 BC) of his conquest of Babylon in 539 BC and capture of Nabonidus, the last Babylonian king.

Cyrus claims to have achieved this with the aid of Marduk, the god of Babylon. He then describes measures of relief he brought to the inhabitants of the city, and tells how he returned a number of images of gods, which Nabonidus had collected in Babylon, to their proper temples throughout Mesopotamia and western Iran. At the
same time he arranged for the restoration of these temples, and organized the return to their homelands of a number of people who had been held in Babylonia by the Babylonian kings.
Although the Jews are not mentioned in this document, their return to Palestine following their deportation by Nebuchadnezzar II, was part of this policy.

This cylinder has sometimes been described as the 'first charter of human rights', but it in fact reflects a long tradition in Mesopotamia where, from as early as the third millennium BC, kings began their reigns with declarations of reforms.


My discernment : Because a Jubilee Type was given twice in Biblical history, and one of these is after the destruction of Babylon -- I do expect that after the destruction of Mystery Babylon the same occurrence will happen because the Lord linked up the fall of Mystery Babylon with old Babylon by name and in Rev 16:12.


Blessings
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