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Re: Whose are we?
#10221
10/08/03 11:16 AM
10/08/03 11:16 AM
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Senior Member
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 528
New York
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Steve,
You would do well to highlight the following as well to understand my point in more balanced way:
We believe that Ellen White was inspired by the Holy Spirit and that her writings, the product of that inspiration, are applicable and authoritative, especially to Seventh-day Adventists.
We do not believe that the quality or degree of inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of Scripture.
We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White are the product of mere Christian piety.
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Re: Whose are we?
#10222
10/09/03 03:12 AM
10/09/03 03:12 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Steve and Thomas, please understand me. I totally agree with the SDA position on Sister White. I would appreciate it if you could show me how my last post contradicts the statements Steve posted. Thank you.
To clarify further - I believe our fundamental beliefs are canonical and biblical. I know this with absolute certainty on two accounts, 1) they can be proven from the Bible, and 2) they have been confirmed by God through the spirit of prophecy.
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Re: Whose are we?
#10223
10/09/03 09:19 PM
10/09/03 09:19 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
Steve and Thomas, please understand me. I totally agree with the SDA position on Sister White. I would appreciate it if you could show me how my last post contradicts the statements Steve posted. Thank you.
To clarify further - I believe our fundamental beliefs are canonical and biblical. I know this with absolute certainty on two accounts, 1) they can be proven from the Bible, and 2) they have been confirmed by God through the spirit of prophecy.
Hi Mike,
I wouldnt have written what I wrote last for your #1 comment here, however for these quotes
quote:
You asked, Do we need Sister White in order to correctly interpret and understand the truths revealed in the Bible? My answer is, Yes. But now that we know what is right we can go back show how the Bible confirms it.
AND
Steve, I agree with you that God has used Sister White to help us correctly understand the truth as revealed in the Bible. But I do not believe it is possible to confidently affirm some of our more controversial doctrines without the Holy Spirit's stamp of approval as manifested in the writings of Sister White.
I did.
Perhaps I have been studying to much science but this quote:
It's always best to start off with the answer and prove it using the evidence rather than the other way round (i.e., start off with the evidence and arrive at the answer).
,well, this isnt really how honest studying is meant to be done...
Then again, your probably the honest one here for confessing that this is how you do it...
As for general feeling on this issue, Id agree with Steve quote:
I thought we use the bible to interpret EGW and not the other way around. I would submit that we have the writings of EGW and can make use of them, however even if we didn't the Holy Spirit would help us correctly interpret what truths are revealed in the bible.
Thus, what we need is the Holy Spirit which will lead and guide into all truth, and yes he may choose to utilize the writings of EGW to accomplish His goal , however He (the Holy Spirit) is not limited to using EGW to correctly interpret the bible......
As to the question you asked:
You said quote:
Steve, I agree with you that God has used Sister White to help us correctly understand the truth as revealed in the Bible. But I do not believe it is possible to confidently affirm some of our more controversial doctrines without the Holy Spirit's stamp of approval as manifested in the writings of Sister White.
There are just too many uncertainties concerning the various Bible manuscripts and translations to leave the important work of "rightly dividing the word of truth" to uninspired minds. The devil is very clever at causing doctrinal divisions over the exact meaning of this or that text. If the truth were plainly known then there wouldn't be catholic and protestant churches.
We need the sure word of prophecy to help us know without a doubt what is truth. God gave us Sister White so we can know that what we believe is from the hand and mouth of God. No more guess work. No more wondering if it could be this or that way. I am 100% convinced that our understanding of the plan of salvation is right and true. Having this blessed assurance feels great. Thank you Jesus.
SDA affirmations/denials said quote:
We believe that Scripture is the foundation of faith and the final authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.
We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White may be used as the basis of doctrine.
We do not believe that Scripture can be understood only through the writings of Ellen White.
We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White are essential for the proclamation of the truths of Scripture to society at large.
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Re: Whose are we?
#10224
10/10/03 01:06 AM
10/10/03 01:06 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Thomas, I believe our doctrines can be proven from the Bible. But I would not have the same confidence in some of our more controversial truths were it not for the confirmation of the Lord through the spirit of prophecy. I'm sorry that sounds like a contradiction, but in my mind they go hand in hand.
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Re: Whose are we?
#10225
10/10/03 12:01 PM
10/10/03 12:01 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
Thomas, I believe our doctrines can be proven from the Bible. But I would not have the same confidence in some of our more controversial truths were it not for the confirmation of the Lord through the spirit of prophecy. I'm sorry that sounds like a contradiction, but in my mind they go hand in hand.
Which are these controversial truths that are not doctrine? Whats the difference between doctrine and other truths? If it is true, why not doctrine. If it cannot be confirmed by the bible, is it true at all? (assuming we talking about spirituall truths) I hope im not to hard on you, Im not after you, im after the principle behind why we belive what we belive, especially concerning things that as you say, cannot be confirmed outside of Ellens work.
/Thomas
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Re: Whose are we?
#10226
10/10/03 04:03 PM
10/10/03 04:03 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Actually, I believe all our 27 doctrines are truth and that they can all be "proven" without Sister White's confirmation. My point is that God's confirmation through the spirit of prophecy is what makes me 100% sure and confident all 27 are right. And that's important for me personally because doctrines/truths like the sanctuary, the investigative judgment, the mark of the beast, etc., have been hotly contested and debated within and without the church for years.
And to be honest were it not for God placing His seal of approval upon them through the spirit of prophecy I would not be as convinced of our translation and interpretation of certain disputed passages in the Bible. I believe our views are exegetically and hermeneutically sound, and I can conscientiously support them, but I also believe the opposition feels the same about their views. The difference is we have God's stamp of approval and they don't. And isn't that why we have the spirit of prophecy? Do you see what I mean?
John
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show [it] unto you.
Daniel
8:16 And I heard a man's voice between [the banks of] Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this [man] to understand the vision.
10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision [is] for [many] days.
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Re: Whose are we?
#10227
10/10/03 05:42 PM
10/10/03 05:42 PM
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Full Member
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
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Mike,
Perhaps you don't see it, but by your admission, the bible alone was not enough to convince you of these "truths." By saying that you are saying that EGW is more significant that the bible, because only through her writings do you fully believe the "truth." Now that may not be what you are saying, but that's what I am hearing......
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Re: Whose are we?
#10228
10/10/03 07:14 PM
10/10/03 07:14 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Steve, what I am saying is what makes sense to me. I don't expect a non-SDA to accept it. I have no problem with our doctrines especially since they have been verified and confirmed by God.
If Bible study alone was enough why then did God bother to coach our pioneers through the spirit of prophecy? They studied and prayed long and hard wrestling over troubling passages. When they came to an impasse God would reveal the correct interpretation to Sister White.
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Re: Whose are we?
#10229
10/10/03 07:42 PM
10/10/03 07:42 PM
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Full Member
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
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Mike,
I am a SDA, born and raised, and I don't understand your position.......
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Re: Whose are we?
#10230
10/10/03 10:54 PM
10/10/03 10:54 PM
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Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
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"I am a SDA, born and raised, and I don't understand your position......."
Steve: You mention nothing here about Christ saving you and giving you a new mind and heart.
Being a cultural/hereditary Adventist(or any other denomination) is a major draw-back, one I have found, creates a knee-jerk distaste for most things of personal/spiritual species, especially if it crosses one's pet theories or assumptions.
One cannot by logic rationalize Scripture. One cannot by reasoning compass the purpose of God on Present Truth or Past.
One cannot by argument summarize the actions of the Spirit.
But we can know Him, if we are born again.
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