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Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative #103810
10/19/08 04:15 PM
10/19/08 04:15 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
Here is the link for studying and discussing this week's study in preparation for the class discussion this coming Sabbath:

http://ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/08d/less04nkjv.html


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Re: Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative [Re: Daryl] #103811
10/19/08 04:17 PM
10/19/08 04:17 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Nova Scotia, Canada
The Key Thought of this week's study and discussion is, as stated, to show that the Godhead anticipated the Fall, and that a plan was crafted to solve the problem of sin long before it arose.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative [Re: Daryl] #103812
10/19/08 04:20 PM
10/19/08 04:20 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
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Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
Why did God do what He did in hopes of saving this world from the results of sin?

In other words, why didn't Adam and Eve die when they sinned?

Why didn't God start again by replacing Adam and Eve with a new and sinless Adam 2 and Eve 2?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative [Re: Daryl] #103817
10/19/08 07:06 PM
10/19/08 07:06 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
I think for two reasons, which in fact are just one - love:

1) Because He loved them (and us), and
2) Because He loved the rest of His creation. What would the unfallen creatures think if God did that? If God didn't destroy Satan at the beginning of the great controversy (although his case was hopeless) because He loved the rest of the universe, why would He destroy human beings?

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Re: Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative [Re: Rosangela] #103818
10/19/08 08:15 PM
10/19/08 08:15 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I agree with the point regarding who God would be viewed by others, but believe God would have done the same thing if the only creatures who existed were Adam and Eve. God is love! It's amazing.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative [Re: Tom] #103819
10/19/08 08:34 PM
10/19/08 08:34 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Yes, I'm also sure He would do the same. But my point was, if He spared Satan and his angels (a hopeless case), why would He destroy the human race?

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Re: Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative [Re: Rosangela] #103821
10/19/08 09:32 PM
10/19/08 09:32 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
That's a good point.

God spared Satan and his angels so that the veracity of Satan's claims could be seen. Had He not done so, it would have simply looked like Satan's accusations were correct. One can just imagine him saying, "If one do you look for me, and I'm not here, you'll know why" (God killed me). So God was constrained to allow things to play out.

 Quote:
God could have destroyed Satan and his sympathizers as easily as one can cast a pebble to the earth; but He did not do this. Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government. The Lord's principles are not of this order. His authority rests upon goodness, mercy, and love; and the presentation of these principles is the means to be used. God's government is moral, and truth and love are to be the prevailing power.

It was God's purpose to place things on an eternal basis of security, and in the councils of heaven it was decided that time must be given for Satan to develop the principles which were the foundation of his system of government. He had claimed that these were superior to God's principles. Time was given for the working of Satan's principles, that they might be seen by the heavenly universe. (DA 759)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative [Re: Tom] #103846
10/20/08 03:56 PM
10/20/08 03:56 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
God foresaw the fall of men and angels and chose to create them anyhow.

DA 22
The plan for our redemption was not an afterthought, a plan formulated after the fall of Adam. It was a revelation of "the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal." Romans 16:25, R. V. It was an unfolding of the principles that from eternal ages have been the foundation of God's throne. From the beginning, God and Christ knew of the apostasy of Satan, and of the fall of man through the deceptive power of the apostate. God did not ordain that sin should exist, but He foresaw its existence, and made provision to meet the terrible emergency. So great was His love for the world, that He covenanted to give His only-begotten Son, "that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

ST 4-25-92
The purpose and plan of grace existed from all eternity. Before the foundation of the world it was according to the determinate counsel of God that man should be created, endowed with power to do the divine will. But the defection of man, with all its consequences, was not hidden from the Omnipotent, and yet it did not deter him from carrying out his eternal purpose; for the Lord would establish his throne in righteousness. God knows the end from the beginning; "known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Therefore redemption was not an afterthought--a plan formulated after the fall of Adam--but an eternal purpose to be wrought out for the blessing not only of this atom of a world but for the good of all the worlds which God has created.

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Re: Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative [Re: Mountain Man] #103854
10/20/08 11:04 PM
10/20/08 11:04 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
God saw the *possibility* of sin. Sin was not a certainty.

 Quote:
Remember that Christ risked all. For our redemption, heaven itself was imperiled. At the foot of the cross, remembering that for one sinner Christ would have laid down His life, you may estimate the value of a soul.(COL 196)


Our conceptions of the future should allow the possibility of:

a.The risk of Christ being lost.
b.Heaven being imperiled.

Do they?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #4 - Atonement and the Divine Initiative [Re: Tom] #103878
10/21/08 06:00 PM
10/21/08 06:00 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Things could have played out a zillion different ways, but this doesn't mean God didn't know precisely which way it would play out. Neither does knowing mean the future is fixed or rigged or that FMAs are robbed of the ability and freedom to choose as they please.

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