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Re: Is this person saved or lost? [Re: Tom] #106562
12/26/08 09:19 PM
12/26/08 09:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Ellen says this about it:

Justification means the saving of a soul from perdition, that he may obtain sanctification, and through sanctification, the life of heaven. Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification (MS 113, 1902). {7BC 908.15}

The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven. {FLB 116.2}

Many commit the error of trying to define minutely the fine points of distinction between justification and sanctification. Into the definitions of these two terms they often bring their own ideas and speculations. Why try to be more minute than is Inspiration on the vital question of righteousness by faith? {FLB 116.3}

As the penitent sinner, contrite before God, discerns Christ's atonement in his behalf, and accepts this atonement as his only hope in this life and the future life, his sins are pardoned. This is justification by faith. {FLB 116.4}

Sanctification is not the work of a moment, an hour, a day, but of a lifetime. It is not gained by a happy flight of feeling, but is the result of constantly dying to sin, and constantly living for Christ. Wrongs cannot be righted nor reformations wrought in the character by feeble, intermittent efforts. It is only by long, persevering effort, sore discipline, and stern conflict, that we shall overcome. {FLB 116.5}

Re: Is this person saved or lost? [Re: Tom] #106565
12/26/08 09:36 PM
12/26/08 09:36 PM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, I posted some quotes of Ellen White on the subject of imputed righteousness, and you commented that I seemed to think the imputed righteousness of Jesus empowers people to obey the law of God. Since I just quoted what she wrote, you must have come to the conclusion of what I seemed to think from the EGW quotes. So, by way of clarification, I asked if you believe the the imputed righteousness of Jesus empowers power to obey the law of God, since this is the inference you seemed to have taken from the quotes I cited. Do you believe this to be the case?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is this person saved or lost? [Re: Tom] #106615
12/27/08 10:05 PM
12/27/08 10:05 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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Tom, no, I do not believe the imputed righteousness of Jesus empowers people to obey God. I believe like Ellen does that it makes it possible for them to be empowered to obey.

Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification (MS 113, 1902). {7BC 908.15}

What do you believe?

Re: Is this person saved or lost? [Re: Mountain Man] #106616
12/27/08 10:08 PM
12/27/08 10:08 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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PS - I am also aware of the fact Ellen sometimes uses the words "imputed" and "imparted" interchangeably. But the context makes it clear whether she is talking about justification or sanctification (as defined in the quote I posted above).

Re: Is this person saved or lost? [Re: Mountain Man] #106630
12/28/08 04:59 AM
12/28/08 04:59 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Ok, so you're saying that sometime Ellen White uses the phrase "imputed righteousness" to refer to sanctification, and the context makes it clear when she is doing this, right?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is this person saved or lost? [Re: Tom] #106688
12/29/08 01:57 AM
12/29/08 01:57 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
I don't know if Ellen ever uses "imputed" in the context of sanctification (the righteous thoughts, words, and deeds experienced by born again believers). In the following passages she does use "imputed" and "imparted" interchangeably in the context of justification (the righteous thoughts, words, and deeds experienced by Jesus and credited to born again believers). Of course, she also uses them separately to represent one or the other.

Quote:
It is the righteousness of Christ that makes the penitent sinner acceptable to God and works his justification. However sinful has been his life, if he believes in Jesus as his personal Saviour, he stands before God in the spotless robes of Christ's imputed righteousness. {FW 106.1}

The great work that is wrought for the sinner who is spotted and stained by evil is the work of justification. By Him who speaketh truth he is declared righteous. The Lord imputes unto the believer the righteousness of Christ and pronounces him righteous before the universe. {1SM 392.2}

Christ imputes His perfection and righteousness to the believing sinner when he does not continue in sin, but turns from transgression to obedience of the commandments. {FLB 115.3}

To those who believe in Christ as their personal Saviour, He imputes His merit and imparts His power. {TMK 288.4}

He imparts to the humble, contrite soul that faith in Christ by which he is justified. {CT 242.3}

Those who receive Christ as a sin-pardoning Saviour are clothed with His garments of light. He takes away their sin and imparts to them His righteousness. {CME 26.3}

The Lord Jesus imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the penitence, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins, in presenting His righteousness for man to grasp by living faith--which is also the gift of God. {FW 24.1}

Let the human agent compare his life with the life of Christ, and through the grace which Jesus imparts to those who make Him their personal Saviour, reach the standard of righteousness. {AG 236.4}

Obedience is the condition of gaining eternal life. Christ imparts His righteousness to those who consent to let Him take away their sins. We are indebted to Christ for the grace which makes us complete in Him. {7BC 971.9}

Our Leader goes before us, and as we follow Him, He imparts to us His righteousness, which is revealed in our lives by a well-ordered life and a godly conversation. {TDG 262.3}

Through the righteousness that He imparts, you may escape the corruption that is in the world through lust. {TDG 304.4}

To be justified means to be pardoned. To those whom God justifies He imputes Christ's righteousness, for the Saviour has taken away our sin. We stand before the throne of God justified and sanctified. We are emptied of self, and, through the sanctification of the truth, Christ abides in our hearts. {TDG 358.4}

Christ does not clothe sin with His righteousness, but He removes the sin, and in its place He imputes His own righteousness. When your sin is cleansed, the righteousness of Christ goes before you, and the glory of the Lord is your rearward. {RC 213.3}

True religion is nothing short of conformity to the will of God, and obedience to all things that He has commanded; and in return, it gives us spiritual life, imputes to us the righteousness of Christ, and promotes the healthful and happy exercise of the best faculties of the mind and heart. {3SM 150.4}

Re: Is this person saved or lost? [Re: Mountain Man] #106695
12/29/08 04:36 AM
12/29/08 04:36 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, I'm a bit confused. I provided a series of quotes from EGW dealing with imputed righteousness, and you said I seemed to think that Christ's imputed righteousness empowers believes to obey the law. Why did you say this?

What do you think of this quote:

Quote:
By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God's commandments. When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness. Then as the Lord looks upon us He sees, not the fig-leaf garment, not the nakedness and deformity of sin, but His own robe of righteousness, which is perfect obedience to the law of Jehovah.

Those who . . . accept of Christ are looked upon by God, not as they are in Adam, but as they are in Jesus Christ, as the sons and daughters of God. (FILB 113; Ellipsis original)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is this person saved or lost? [Re: Tom] #106734
12/29/08 10:00 PM
12/29/08 10:00 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
MM, I'm a bit confused. I provided a series of quotes from EGW dealing with imputed righteousness, and you said I seemed to think that Christ's imputed righteousness empowers believes to obey the law. Why did you say this?

I don't remember why. I'm not sure what you believe. But lately I've been trying to clarify what I believe. Do you agree with the following definitions (posted previously):

I don't know if Ellen ever uses "imputed" in the context of sanctification (the righteous thoughts, words, and deeds experienced by born again believers). In the following passages she does use "imputed" and "imparted" interchangeably in the context of justification (the righteous thoughts, words, and deeds experienced by Jesus and credited to born again believers). Of course, she also uses them separately to represent one or the other.

Originally Posted By: Tom
What do you think of this quote:

"By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God's commandments. When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness. Then as the Lord looks upon us He sees, not the fig-leaf garment, not the nakedness and deformity of sin, but His own robe of righteousness, which is perfect obedience to the law of Jehovah.

Those who . . . accept of Christ are looked upon by God, not as they are in Adam, but as they are in Jesus Christ, as the sons and daughters of God. (FILB 113; Ellipsis original)

The sentence, "This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness", seems to articulate some of the insights in the passages I posted previously, namely, that justification and sanctification happen simultaneously even though they are opposite sides of the same coin. "Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification." {7BC 908.15}

What do you think?

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