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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: scott]
#100292
06/27/08 08:00 PM
06/27/08 08:00 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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S: Anyone defending the justice of eternal burning has bitterness and hatred in their hearts. They have created God in their image. Could the same be said about how we view the suffering of the lost in the end?
MM: If a person believes God will punish resurrected sinners at the end of time with hell-fire, in duration and in proportion to their sinfulness, would that be an indication that they have hatred and bitterness in their hearts, and that their grasp of God's justice is distorted as a result? Is the lake of fire actually a nicer death, a more humane death?
Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
EW 294 Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, "The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon." {EW 294.1}
Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, "Amen!" {EW 294.2}
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#100304
06/27/08 11:16 PM
06/27/08 11:16 PM
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MM: If a person believes God will punish resurrected sinners at the end of time with hell-fire, in duration and in proportion to their sinfulness, would that be an indication that they have hatred and bitterness in their hearts, and that their grasp of God's justice is distorted as a result? I prefer God not resurrect the wicked at all. I need no revenge! I don't want to see my loved ones or my enemies who never accepted Christ suffer one minute longer. Does that make me more merciful than God? "Vengeance is Mine," says the Lord. MM, how would you feel if God didn't desire to punish anyone, but only told us that because of the hardness of our hearts? Would you still think of Him as just? scott
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: scott]
#107064
01/04/09 11:38 AM
01/04/09 11:38 AM
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OP
Charter Member Active Member 2012
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Happy New Year to all.
Thanks for all of your comments to my question.
But, if there is pain and suffering in hell, would it not affect our choice between serving God or the flesh?
My opinion, in choosing between to serve the flesh or God, there must be nothing in between. If you choose God, you will live eternally; if you choose the flesh, you will die. Period!! Just die! Nothing to be added at all, i.e.: pain, suffering in hell. Some will suffer a short time, some will suffer a long time. This is not fair, and so many will be confuse between serving God and avoiding dying in hell painfully.
To die or to live must be a pure choice without any glimpse or idea of torture, suffer and pain in hell. This would show people who really love God from their heart and want to live for Him.
Imagine, many would love to serve the flesh if they know and sure that dying in hell is a nice and instant death, you feel nothing at all, in 1/1000 second. This will really short out those who loves the flesh and those who loves God.
If this is really the case, why then Jesus or EGW said about prolonging pain and suffering in hell prior to death? Is this a tactic to attract people to not choosing death, not choosing the flesh?
WDYT?
In His love
James S
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#107067
01/04/09 01:14 PM
01/04/09 01:14 PM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
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The underline portion of this passage just jumped in front of me. Is this a clue to what will happen in the destruction of the wicked? Is it in harmony with Ez 28:18 when God talks about the destruction of Lucifer? And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Blessings
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: James Saptenno]
#107071
01/04/09 02:06 PM
01/04/09 02:06 PM
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Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,141
Florida, USA
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Are the wicked died instantly in hell when it started? Then this is "a nice death in hell" wihtout prolonging pain, torture and suffering.
Or do they die at different time depend to the greater sins they had committed or the lesser? In this case is there a time limit? 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year ..... etc?
I asked this question because I had heard some people saying that the wicked would die at different time in hell. The greater their sins are, the longer they live in the burning hell, experienced pain, torture and suffering.
Is there any legal basic to this idea? The bible or SOP?
In His love
James S
I certainly think Satan and his angels with greater sin and different makeup than man or flesh will take a different degree of time, but overall it seems to be a quick matter for flesh or the wicked. Besides, who are we to question God, do we know better how to eradicate sin, are we more knowing than God, is our love greater than what God has, I would think not....
Last edited by Richard; 01/04/09 02:08 PM.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Tom]
#107090
01/04/09 06:37 PM
01/04/09 06:37 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
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The Bible speaks of people receiving recompense according to their sins. EGW is more specific about punishment being proportional. She says that some suffer for hours, others for days....
... while God supernaturally keeps them alive until their time is up. ...
As I see things, "torture" would not apply, but "pain" and "suffering" would. im not sure how the "lake of fire" will work out. we may play the guessing game til heaven and still not know. but i think the bolded part of your statement is a very good point.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: scott]
#107093
01/04/09 07:28 PM
01/04/09 07:28 PM
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Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
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... Anyone defending the justice of eternal burning has bitterness and hatred in their hearts. They have created God in their image.
Could the same be said about how we view the suffering of the lost in the end?
scott i dont think this is a fair judgment, nor do i think that it is conducive to getting someone to see a different point of view. if someone has been taught something and it is so ingrained in their mind then it will take time for the possiblity of a different view being true to take root and grow. something i forget on a much too regular basis. to test that, just ask God to cleanse you from all tradition and error and see how much pops up. i was amazed when i did it!!
Last edited by teresaq; 01/04/09 07:31 PM.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: teresaq]
#107115
01/05/09 02:19 AM
01/05/09 02:19 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The Bible speaks of people receiving recompense according to their sins. EGW is more specific about punishment being proportional. She says that some suffer for hours, others for days....
... while God supernaturally keeps them alive until their time is up. ...
As I see things, "torture" would not apply, but "pain" and "suffering" would.
im not sure how the "lake of fire" will work out. we may play the guessing game til heaven and still not know. but i think the bolded part of your statement is a very good point. This isn't clear to me. What are you wishing to say? Here's what I wrote: I don't believe the "burning hell" they live in means they are being burned by literal fire, their flesh in flames, while God supernaturally keeps them alive until their time is up. That would be "torture," to use one of the words you use. You left out the part that says, "I don't believe ..." which might convey a different idea than intended to the part you quoted.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: Tom]
#107126
01/05/09 07:03 AM
01/05/09 07:03 AM
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SDA Active Member 2024
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
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The Bible speaks of people receiving recompense according to their sins. EGW is more specific about punishment being proportional. She says that some suffer for hours, others for days....
... while God supernaturally keeps them alive until their time is up. ...
As I see things, "torture" would not apply, but "pain" and "suffering" would.
im not sure how the "lake of fire" will work out. we may play the guessing game til heaven and still not know. but i think the bolded part of your statement is a very good point. This isn't clear to me. What are you wishing to say? Here's what I wrote: I don't believe the "burning hell" they live in means they are being burned by literal fire, their flesh in flames, while God supernaturally keeps them alive until their time is up. That would be "torture," to use one of the words you use. You left out the part that says, "I don't believe ..." which might convey a different idea than intended to the part you quoted. oh!! i am so sorry!! i had to study the two quotes before i realized that in condensing your quote i made it look like something you did not say! while God supernaturally keeps them alive until their time is up. i thought that was a very good point to consider. God would have to keep the wicked alive in order for it take time to burn them up!! i hadnt realized that before and maybe others hadnt either. again, i do apologize tom.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: A nice death in hell?
[Re: teresaq]
#107230
01/06/09 11:38 PM
01/06/09 11:38 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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If this is really the case, why then Jesus or EGW said about prolonging pain and suffering in hell prior to death? Is this a tactic to attract people to not choosing death, not choosing the flesh? Good question, James. It helps me to first acknowledge the facts and then I can begin to wrap my mind around them. It also helps me to know God is good and that whatever He does is the outgrowth of His goodness. I agree that it makes more sense from our perspective of law and justice to simply leave the wicked in the grave and not to resurrect them. However, it makes sense to God to resurrect them therefore I acknowledge that our perspective is wrong. I cannot explain it, but I accept it on the basis God is good and whatever He does is the byproduct of His goodness. The same thing applies to the execution of justice and judgment and the final demise of the wicked in the lake of fire. It makes sense to the angels, too. Nevertheless, such things are indeed "strange acts" for such a good and loving and merciful Lord and Savior. Listen, though, as the angels witness and react to the punishment of the wicked during the seven last plagues, which will be considered the worst thing to ever happen to sinners: Revelation 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments. Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.
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