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The 'Open View' of God
#10786
09/14/04 10:26 AM
09/14/04 10:26 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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In another thread, someone mentioned the 'open view' of God as being a distince theological teaching. Tom provided the following comments and definition: quote:
As for the open view of God, that would be an excellent topic for another thread, except I think most everyone is in the same boat you are. Here is a link to a dialog on the topic: Openness of God (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/007/1.38.html)
Basically it is a theology attempting to reconcile God's knowledge of the future with man's free will. It suggests that "God, in grace, grants humans significant freedom to cooperate with or work against God's will for their lives, and he enters into dynamic, give-and-take relationships with us. The Christian life involves a genuine interaction between God and human beings. We respond to God's gracious initiatives and God responds to our responses...and on it goes. God takes risks in this give-and-take relationship, yet he is endlessly resourceful and competent in working toward his ultimate goals. Sometimes God alone decides how to accomplish these goals. On other occasions, God works with human decisions, adapting his own plans to fit the changing situation. God does not control everything that happens. Rather, he is open to receiving input from his creatures. In loving dialog, God invites us to participate with him to bring the future into being."
This theory is an alternative view from the more traditonal classical theists and process theologians. There are several Adventist theologians who have written on it. Most prominently, Richard Rice, from La Sierra University coauthored a book called The Openness of God. The above quote was taken from the Preface to that book.
Let's discuss this a bit. How does this contrast to the traditional teaching? If you look at Abraham's testings of faith and his early failures, it seems there is some truth to the 'open view' to me.
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Re: The 'Open View' of God
#10787
09/14/04 02:50 PM
09/14/04 02:50 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Posts: 22,256
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"We manage the choices; God manages the consequences." Things are not purely cause and effect. God is control; not natural law.
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Re: The 'Open View' of God
#10788
09/14/04 10:22 PM
09/14/04 10:22 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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Some questions which the openness view seek to answer are: 1) Why did evil come into the world? 2) Can our actions influence God? 3) Does God take risks?
Regarding 1), the answer the openness view would give is that evil came into the world because God created beings with free will. He did nothing to encourage evil, including planning for it to happen.
Regarding 2), the openness view would state that yes, our actions influence God.
Regarding 3), the openness view would state that yes, God does take risks.
This isn't an exhaustive list, but something to help the discussion get going.
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Re: The 'Open View' of God
#10789
09/16/04 12:41 AM
09/16/04 12:41 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
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Posts: 4,583
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Mike, does the open view boil down to 'cause and effect' theology?
Tom, can you expand on point 2? What are the proponents saying when they state that our actions influence God?
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Re: The 'Open View' of God
#10790
09/16/04 04:40 AM
09/16/04 04:40 AM
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I am more inclined to say it boils down to the sovereignty of God.
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Re: The 'Open View' of God
#10791
09/16/04 04:46 AM
09/16/04 04:46 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Mark Shipowick: Mike, does the open view boil down to 'cause and effect' theology?
Tom, can you expand on point 2? What are the proponents saying when they state that our actions influence God?
It means that God does things He would not have done had we not done what we did to influence Him. The most straight-forward example would be prayer. Because we pray, God does things He would not have done had we not prayed.
======
Removed double-quote only. - Daryl ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif) [ September 16, 2004, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]
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Re: The 'Open View' of God
#10792
09/16/04 11:53 AM
09/16/04 11:53 AM
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OK, so far so good. I'd like to understand though exactly what this theology is trying to correct. Can you help me here Mike or Tom or anyone? We all agree that prayer makes a huge difference. God wants us to come to Him with our burdens and desires and he encourages us to do that - to come boldly to the throne of grace. That means that a soverign God has a dynamic relationship with His covenant people. Where does the open view expand or change our perspective?
Keep in mind that Adventist theology has emphasized free will to the point of infringing on the doctrine of the divine election of the saints. Does the 'open view' go still further in emphasizing free will?
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Re: The 'Open View' of God
#10793
09/17/04 03:01 AM
09/17/04 03:01 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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True, prayer enables God to do things which otherwise He cannot do, but there is a limit to this insight. For one, it does not apply to the salvation of souls. That is, God is not dependant upon our prayers to save human beings. He has done and is doing everything He can to influence people to accept Jesus as their personal Saviour. God is more, way more, interested in the salvation of mankind than man can ever hope to be.
Another thing, God is not waiting for us to pray, or to do something, in order to vindicate His own kingdom and character. In light of the great controversy and Satan's accusations, God has been, and still is, in control. The outcome of this cosmic war does not depend on our prayers. If need be God can, and would, call upon the rocks to proclaim His power and praise.
Our salvation is the fruit of God vindicating His own kingdom and character. Whether or not anyone is actually saved will not impact the outcome of the great controversy. With or without us, God will win the war. But the good news is, though small by comparison, millions of all those born to man will be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Thank you Jesus.
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Re: The 'Open View' of God
#10794
09/16/04 11:40 PM
09/16/04 11:40 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
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quote: Originally posted by Mike Lowe: True, prayer enables God to do things which otherwise He cannot do, but there is a limit to this insight. For one, it does not apply to the salvation of souls. That is, God is not dependant upon our prayers to save human beings. He has done and is doing everything He can to influence people to accept Jesus as their personal Saviour. God is more, way more, interested in the salvation of mankind than man can ever hope to be.
Are you saying our actions make no difference in the salvation of souls? It sounds like that's what your saying. It sounds like you're saying that because God has done and is doing everything that He can to influence people to accept Christ, and because He is way more interested in man's salvation than we are, that our actions make no difference in the salvation of souls. Or maybe it's just our prayers that make no difference to the salvation of souls.
Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Please clarify. Thanks.
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Re: The 'Open View' of God
#10795
09/16/04 11:59 PM
09/16/04 11:59 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote: Originally posted by Mark Shipowick: OK, so far so good. I'd like to understand though exactly what this theology is trying to correct. Can you help me here Mike or Tom or anyone? We all agree that prayer makes a huge difference. God wants us to come to Him with our burdens and desires and he encourages us to do that - to come boldly to the throne of grace. That means that a soverign God has a dynamic relationship with His covenant people. Where does the open view expand or change our perspective?
Keep in mind that Adventist theology has emphasized free will to the point of infringing on the doctrine of the divine election of the saints. Does the 'open view' go still further in emphasizing free will?
Hey Mark. I haven't been ignoring you, but it's been a busy day. Plus I've been thinking how best to answer your question.
An open theist is more likely to take certain statements of Scripture at face value. For example, statements of God's repenting or relenting are more likely to be taken at face value (i.e., God actually did repent or relent). Another example would be after Abraham's test, God said "Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." The expression "now I know" indicates that God learned something. An open theist would accept that at face value (i.e., God actually did learn something).
Tradionalists would be more apt to ascribe these statements as figures of speech, or anthropormorphisms.
Here's an example from the Spirit of Prophesy. "Remember that Christ risked all. For our redemption, heaven itself was imperiled." (COL 196). This statement makes perfect sense to an open theist. A tradionalist (aren't labels nice?) might be more likely to have difficulty with this statement thinking, "How could heaven have been imperiled, since God knew Christ would be successful?"
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