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Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet #125914
06/18/10 12:18 AM
06/18/10 12:18 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Here is the link to this week's discussion and study material:

http://ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/10b/less12.html

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Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Re: Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet [Re: Rosangela] #125915
06/18/10 12:27 AM
06/18/10 12:27 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Someone said the following in the Collegiate Quarterly, last quarter 1997:

Quote:
We should never forget that the health reform was made for man, and not man for the health reform. Every time the care of our health becomes a way for us to prove something to God, it becomes an end in itself. To Jesus it’s not an end in itself. The purpose of living healthfully is that we can fully enjoy the benefits of salvation and thus glorify God more fully.


A friend of ours uses to say that although health reform is very important, many preach salvation through soybeans.

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Re: Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet [Re: Rosangela] #125916
06/18/10 12:39 AM
06/18/10 12:39 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Someone posted the following joke at Spectrum:

Quote:
A new Adventist joined a church and was invited to a new visitor's pot luck. She asked if she could bring something. They said sure and she proudly announced she makes a mean broiled fish.

Oh no, they cried. We don't eat fish here.

But Jesus ate fish!

Yes, but that was before Ellen G. White.


I know a different version of it which goes more or less like that:

Someone said it is a sin to eat meat.

Another brother pointed out to him that Jesus ate meat.

To which he replied, "Jesus did not have as much light as we have today."

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Re: Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet [Re: Rosangela] #125917
06/18/10 12:58 AM
06/18/10 12:58 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
I'm ovo-lacto-vegetarian, but use milk and eggs sparingly. I was surprised at the information shared in the Commentary on Sabbath School Lesson in Spectrum, by Dr. Brian Bull, a researcher and teacher and administrator (Dean, Department Chair) at the Loma Linda University, School of Medicine:

Quote:
This brings us to the ongoing Adventist Health Study-2. This is a very comprehensive study and it will produce a correspondingly large amount of data. ...

For the most part the changes endorsed by a scientific study of 96,000 SDAs will be non-controversial but there is the virtual certainty that some dietary changes will prove too difficult for some Adventists to stomach (sorry about that!).

...

The early, and still very preliminary returns from the health study suggest that a vegan diet is not as beneficial as a lacto-ovo-vegetarian one — vegans die earlier — in fact, they die at a rate that is only slightly less rapid that omnivore Adventists (who eat meat and seafood, etc).[1] Now I must stress that the data are not yet statistically valid — there are only about 4,000 vegans registered in the study so it will be a while yet before the data set is large enough for statistical validity — but these early returns at least raise the possibility that the full set of data may not confirm the confidently expected (by vegans) superiority of a vegan diet.

...

Obviously, this particular philosophical/dietary conundrum may never come to pass. Additional data, as it comes in over the next few years, may lower the all-cause mortality of vegans into the range of the lacto-ovo-vegetarians.[2] While this is certainly possible it is unlikely for two reasons.

First, if the data from earlier studies on Adventists and other vegetarians is examined closely, the same higher, all-cause mortality rates are associated with vegans in those studies also.[3] However, all of those studies had too few vegans registered to achieve statistical rigor on the relative death rates of vegans. This will not be a problem with the Adventist Health Study-2 as there are several thousand vegans registered.

Secondly, there is, at present, no reason to suspect that the early returns from the AHS-2 are skewed such that the average mortality rate will drop significantly as more data comes in. The usual behavior of this sort of data is that the average mortality stays approximately the same as the study matures and the confidence limits narrow down. ...

END NOTES

[1] From a platform presentation made by Dr. Gary Fraser, lead scientist on the Adventist Health Study-2 at the Adventist Nutrition Conference, 2008. DVDs of the presentation are available from Sigma Audio/Video Associates, P.O. Box 51, Loma Linda, CA 92354

[2] For those interested in the preliminary statistics, SDAs classified as lacto-ovo-vegetarians are showing an all-cause mortality (death-rate) that is only 75% that of the omnivores in the study. Lacto-ovo-vegetarians who also eat fish are doing even better at 72%. The all-cause mortality of vegans is essentially indistinguishable from that of omnivore SDAs (~95%).

[3] See “Risk Factors and Disease among Vegans”, chapter 13, in Diet, Life Expectancy, and Chronic Disease: Studies of Seventh-day Adventists and Other Vegetarians (New York: Oxford University Press), pp. 237, 238.



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Re: Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet [Re: Rosangela] #125918
06/18/10 01:19 AM
06/18/10 01:19 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Interesting information.

This week's material also contains some interesting stuff.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet [Re: Daryl] #125920
06/18/10 02:00 AM
06/18/10 02:00 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
Do not go to extremes in regard to the health reform. Some of our people are very careless in regard to health reform. But because some are far behind, you must not, in order to be an example to them, be an extremist. You must not deprive yourself of that class of food which makes good blood. Your devotion to true principles is leading you to submit yourself to a diet which is giving you an experience that will not recommend health reform. This is your danger. When you see that you are becoming weak physically, it is essential for you to make changes, and at once. Put into your diet something you have left out. It is your duty to do this. Get eggs of healthy fowls. Use these eggs cooked or raw. Drop them uncooked into the best unfermented wine you can find. This will supply that which is necessary to your system. Do not for a moment suppose that it will not be right to do this. . . . {CD 204.1}
We appreciate your experience as a physician, and yet I say that milk and eggs should be included in your diet. These things cannot at present be dispensed with, and the doctrine of dispensing with them should not be taught. {CD 204.2}
You are in danger of taking too radical a view of health reform, and of prescribing for yourself a diet that will not sustain you. . . . {CD 204.3}
I do hope that you will heed the words I have spoken to you. It has been presented to me that you will not be able to exert the most successful influence in health reform unless in some things you become more liberal to yourself and to others. The time will come when milk cannot be used as freely as it is now used; but the present time is not the time to discard it. And eggs contain properties which are remedial agencies in counteracting poisons. And while warnings have been given against the use of these articles of diet in families where the children were addicted to, yes, steeped in, habits of self-abuse; yet we should not consider it a denial of principle to use eggs of hens which are well cared for and suitably fed. . . . {CD 204.4}
God calls upon those for whom Christ died to take proper care of themselves, and set a right example to others. My brother, you are not to make a test for the people of God, upon the question of diet; for they will lose confidence in teachings that are strained to the farthest point of extension. The Lord desires His people to be sound on every point in health reform, but we must not go to extremes. . . . {CD 205.1}
...
The time will come when we may have to discard some of the articles of diet we now use, such as milk and cream and eggs; but my message is that you must not bring yourself to a time of trouble beforehand, and thus afflict yourself with death. Wait till the Lord prepares the way before you. {CD 206.1}


Therefore, according to Ellen White, one should not teach a vegan diet, and is "an extremist" if one is a strict vegan. Furthermore, one risks death for it. Thus it seems that the health study proves her words once again.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet [Re: Green Cochoa] #125923
06/18/10 12:54 PM
06/18/10 12:54 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,499
Midland
Green, that is as faulty a conclusion as if there is man-made global warming.

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Re: Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet [Re: kland] #125924
06/18/10 01:07 PM
06/18/10 01:07 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,499
Midland
Quote:
The early, and still very preliminary returns from the health study suggest that a vegan diet is not as beneficial as a lacto-ovo-vegetarian one —
This is assuming a vegan diet is the equivalent of a healthy diet. While a healthy diet today does not include animal products, can vegans choose a harmful diet? That is, just because it is not from an animal, does that automatically mean it's healthful.

As said before, we are being attacked from multiple directions. While eating a diet of animal products is not healthy, if you are not diligent and specific, eating a vegan diet will not be healthy either. People choose to decide for themselves what is good for food, what is pleasant to the eyes (and taste buds), and they do eat. Letting senses and pleasure rule the day does not make one healthy nor wise.

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Re: Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet [Re: kland] #125925
06/18/10 01:40 PM
06/18/10 01:40 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
Green, that is as faulty a conclusion as if there is man-made global warming.

kland,

I'm not sure which "conclusion" you might refer to, as I brought out several points. However, the points are all made by Ellen White, not me. With which of her points do you disagree, and why?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Lesson #12 - The Bible and Diet [Re: kland] #125926
06/18/10 01:51 PM
06/18/10 01:51 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: kland
Quote:
The early, and still very preliminary returns from the health study suggest that a vegan diet is not as beneficial as a lacto-ovo-vegetarian one —
This is assuming a vegan diet is the equivalent of a healthy diet. While a healthy diet today does not include animal products, can vegans choose a harmful diet? That is, just because it is not from an animal, does that automatically mean it's healthful.

I understand your point here, kland, but according to Mrs. White, a vegan diet is not a healthy diet to begin with. You need to include milk or eggs to complete a healthful dietary, according to her. If you strictly eliminate all animal products, dairy, and eggs, you are adopting a diet which Mrs. White calls unhealthful and extreme, and she refers to this as bringing on a time of trouble prematurely.

I will provide some quotes in the next post. I will admit, these quotes have also surprised and educated me. I have eliminated dairy from my diet, but still use eggs of necessity for the B12. I wish I could eliminate them too, for they sometimes disgust me. But I have experienced, personally, a strictly vegan diet for almost a year, during which I lost my health and my mental acuity declined. Going back on eggs is what brought me out of my anemia, nourishing my blood. I was at that time unaware of these statements of Mrs. White, but after the personal experience and also seeing these statements, I am now firmly in the non-vegan camp until the Lord shows us decisively to abandon milk and eggs. That time will come. I don't believe it has fully arrived yet. B12 can only be stored by the liver for a few months, so eliminating all animal foods prematurely means you'll run out of B12 so much the sooner. Some people who never brush their teeth may be able to get by on the B12 production by the oral bacteria. In my case, such B12 would be inadequate. And I'm allergic to milk, and have felt better since I eliminated it. For those who can use milk, they may be able to eliminate eggs. It seems that from Mrs. White's counsel, however, one or the other is necessary for good health.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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