Mike,

I think your list has some serious issues with the biblical testimony where all are equal as sinners and all are equal as being offered salvation.

So you're basically saying that if a person has been "thoroughly instructed," either they are perfect/sinless or they aren't in a saved condition. That is, any "thoroughly instructed" person is either "1) abiding in Jesus, 2) walking in the Spirit and in the mind of the new man, 3) partaking of the divine nature, and 4) living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded" or is not saved.

This is a problematic position to take.

You've included knowing God's character as a part of this, including what happens at the judgment. You've sort of waffled in your position regarding whether God sets people on fire to make them burn alive, so I don't know what you're present position is, but you've included this as a part of the "thorough instruction." But there's wide disagreement on this point! Who's to decide what it means to be "thoroughly instructed"? Surely if one is instructed incorrectly, that can't count.

What about Christ's human nature? Is that an essential item? Can a person be a Type 1 person if (s)he believes Christ partook of the nature of Adam before the fall?

What about subjects like women's ordination? Do these count? Or are they not a part of the "everything that Jesus commanded"?

What about health principles? If one doesn't exercise enough, are they disqualified? Or if they eat in between meals? Or eat sugar?

Where do you draw the line for these types of things? And where did you get such an idea from?

I understand where Rosangela is coming from in saying there are basically two groups. In terms of being saved, the criteria is if one has faith in Christ or not. Jesus said that whosoever believed in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. He didn't add other items to the list, so we shouldn't either. Salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ. Ellen White agrees! (she says exactly this, and says it's something that can't be repeated too often).

It's true that genuineness of our faith will be demonstrated by our works, but we need to be very careful that we don't make good works the means instead of the fruit.

The New Covenant is to have the law written in the heart and mind. Jesus said, "The Kingdom of God is within you." These statements point to an internal transformation. This is what's important. We need to be converted, transformed from within. This happens when we accept Christ as our personal savior. This is the way of salvation.

Ellen White explains it clearly here:

By "offered salvation" do you mean they are in a saved state, that they are heaven-bound? Or, do you differentiate between those who are offered salvation and those who are living in a saved state?

Tom, do you agree Type II people (see description above) are living in an unsaved state? If not, please explain why.

Also, do you agree Type I people have a correct understanding of saving truth and are living in harmony in with everything Jesus commanded? If not, please describe what it takes? Can people live in harmony with everything Jesus commanded and not have a correct understanding of certain saving truths?

I think I am doing such a differentiation. I am opposing the idea that there is a hierarchy among the saints. Alike the RC teaching that some saints are saints, other saints are merely blessed and then there are all the rest who need some time in purgatory to finish the purification process..

Thomas, so, do you see a difference between 1) people who are living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded and 2) people who are living up to the light they have received but who are ignorant of certain saving truths and 3) people who are living in harmony with their convictions and conscience but who have never heard of Jesus and the Bible?

I know this was addressed to Thomas, but the answer is so obvious, I can't help responding. The difference is that some have accepted the offer while others have not. Also obvious, Thomas did mean that all are in a saved state, because he referred to "all" being offered salvation. Those who accept the offer are in a saved state, while those who don't are not.

EGW explains that unless we resist the love of God shining from the cross, we will be led to the cross in repentance for our sin, the law will be written on the heart, etc. So those who are resisting the Holy Spirit are in an unsaved state, while those who respond to the Holy Spirit are in a saved state.



No, not as I'm using the term.



I did. It's what it says in the EGW quote I provided. Those few in every generation who resist every artifice of the enemy.



Sure. It's not dependent upon knowledge, but light; that is, how one responds to the light that one has. Enoch is a prime example of this. There were things he didn't understand. For example, he didn't know there would be a resurrection or a judgment until God revealed these things to him in a dream, yet he was described as walking with God.
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Tom, do you think Enoch was sinning ignorantly before he learned the truth about the resurrection and the judgment?

Also, I'm trying to define/describe people who have a correct understanding of all saving truth and who are living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded; however, you keep referring to people who are living in a saved state even though they are ignorant of certain saving truths and are, therefore, not living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded. With this mind I would like to ask a favor - I would appreciate it you would post Bible and SOP passages which you believe define/describe the people I defined/described above. Thank you.

It is my understanding that IF there exists a difference between your groups 1 and 2, only God can tell the difference. I think there is a difference between group 1/2 and 3, but again, only God can tell what exactly that difference is.