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Re: Lesson #13 - All the Rest Is COMMENTARY
[Re: vastergotland]
#127646
09/20/10 11:02 AM
09/20/10 11:02 AM
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How would we respond to the following at the bottom of Sunday's? Though we need to keep in mind the principles seen in today’s lesson, are there not times and places where we need to step in and judge, if not a person’s heart, at least the actions?
Are we to step back and say and do nothing in every situation?
Isaiah 56:10 describes watchmen as “dumb dogs, they cannot bark.” How can we know when to speak and when to keep silent? How do we strike the right balance here?
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Re: Lesson #13 - All the Rest Is COMMENTARY
[Re: Daryl]
#127653
09/20/10 05:25 PM
09/20/10 05:25 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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Nothing like being in the same boat!!! Daryl, I'm in the same boat as you. Add me to the boat!
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson #13 - All the Rest Is COMMENTARY
[Re: Rosangela]
#127654
09/20/10 05:47 PM
09/20/10 05:47 PM
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Now let's examine a parallel passage in 1 Cor. 8: While I tend to believe that it is a parallel passage, I'm not convinced that this position is incontrovertible. Do we have any objective proof that Paul was talking about food sacrificed to idols in Rom 14? But in any case, I believe 1Cor 8 gives us how "strong" people should react under all circumstances: I will never again _______, lest I make my brother stumble. The overriding concern, IMO, is not whether we eat or drink, but whether or not we have internalized Christ's attitude of sacrificING anything and everything for others.
Last edited by asygo; 09/20/10 05:56 PM.
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson #13 - All the Rest Is COMMENTARY
[Re: Daryl]
#127655
09/20/10 05:59 PM
09/20/10 05:59 PM
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How would we respond to the following at the bottom of Sunday's? Though we need to keep in mind the principles seen in today’s lesson, are there not times and places where we need to step in and judge, if not a person’s heart, at least the actions?
Are we to step back and say and do nothing in every situation?
Isaiah 56:10 describes watchmen as “dumb dogs, they cannot bark.” How can we know when to speak and when to keep silent? How do we strike the right balance here? We are not called to judge motives. However, we have the responsibility to be our brothers' keeper and keep them from harm as much as possible. So, if person A is doing something that hurts person B, I must not judge person A's motives, but I should tell him to stop hurting person B.
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson #13 - All the Rest Is COMMENTARY
[Re: asygo]
#127656
09/20/10 06:26 PM
09/20/10 06:26 PM
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Re: Lesson #13 - All the Rest Is COMMENTARY
[Re: Rosangela]
#127660
09/20/10 09:39 PM
09/20/10 09:39 PM
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While I tend to believe that it is a parallel passage, I'm not convinced that this position is incontrovertible. Do we have any objective proof that Paul was talking about food sacrificed to idols in Rom 14? Don't you think that the repeated mention of the "weak brother" in both passages and Paul's statement in both passages that we shouldn’t eat meat if this makes our brother stumble/fall are strong evidences that these are parallel passages? They certainly could be parallel, but I want something more than similarity in verbiage. I want something stronger to "prove" that Rom 14 is talking about food offered to idols, as opposed to food in general. Beyond that, I don't think the two passages (Rom 14, 1Cor 8) are emphasizing the same point. The "bring it home" verse in both chapters is 13. Romans 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
1 Corinthians 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. In both, the goal is to avoid causing a brother to stumble. But the contrast is that the problem in Rom 14 is a judgmental spirit, while the problem in 1Cor 8 is indiscretion and perhaps apathy regarding others' eternal welfare. Even so, they could still be both talking about idol food. I just want stronger evidence specifically linking Rom 14 with idol food.
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson #13 - All the Rest Is COMMENTARY
[Re: asygo]
#127664
09/21/10 07:43 AM
09/21/10 07:43 AM
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Is there not a point where adjusting society and ones personal life after the dictates of the ones who are most easily offended turns life sour? Many in Israel were offended by Jesus performing healings on the Sabbath(Pharisees), or by Jesus attending parties with outcasts(Pharisees, Johns disciples), or by Jesus preaching that salvation would come through Him(most of the people who had been following Him in huge crowds). This did not stop Jesus from healing the sick even on Sabbath, reaching out to the outcasts of society or telling the truth about Himself.
The "bring home" point as posted by Arnold from Romans 14, "therefore let us not judge one another anymore..". If you who are weak in your faith and therefore eat only vegetables would stop judging the one who eats meat, and if you who are strong in your faith would stop judging the one who eats only vegetables..
Further, if you bring the principle that seem to be the one espoused above, that because some will fall if others eat meat, therefore no one must eat meat, to the other example given by Paul; that if some will fall because others keep the Sabbath, therefore no one must keep the Sabbath..
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson #13 - All the Rest Is COMMENTARY
[Re: vastergotland]
#127666
09/21/10 12:11 PM
09/21/10 12:11 PM
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Further, if you bring the principle that seem to be the one espoused above, that because some will fall if others eat meat, therefore no one must eat meat, to the other example given by Paul; that if some will fall because others keep the Sabbath, therefore no one must keep the Sabbath.. Although Paul's comment is not clear in Rom. 14:5, 6, the translation of the NKJV, of the RSV and others is completely misleading. Paul is not here speaking of the observance (keeping) of a day. The KJV is correct in translating the verb as "regard" and not "keep." The verb here is phroneo, whose meaning is 1) to have understanding, be wise 2) to feel, to think 2a) to have an opinion of one’s self, think of one’s self, to be modest, not let one’s opinion (though just) of himself exceed the bounds of modesty 2b) to think or judge what one’s opinion is 2c) to be of the same mind i.e. agreed together, cherish the same views, be harmonious 3) to direct one’s mind to a thing, to seek, to strive for 3a) to seek one’s interest or advantage 3b) to be of one’s party, side with him (in public affairs) The verb used in the NT to "keep" (the law, the commandments, the Sabbath) is tereo: 1) to attend to carefully, take care of 1a) to guard 1b) metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is 1c) to observe 1d) to reserve: to undergo something This is the verb used in Matt. 19:17, John 9:16, John 14:21, 24; 1 John 2:4, 5; 1 John 3:24, etc. Not once in the whole NT is the verb phroneo used for the religious observance of commandments or days. So, Paul is not speaking here of the observance of days at all, but, very probably, of fast days.
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