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Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: asygo] #160847
01/26/14 04:59 PM
01/26/14 04:59 PM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
MGEs and epigentic switching being pass down the generations in real, not legal. But note - the MGE do not determine behavior, YOU DO. The MGE give the propensity to the behaviors we call sin.

But didn't Melashenko say that even if all our actions were OK, the fact that we have MGEs/propensities is the main problem God has to solve? So, a person whose actions are perfect will still die eternally if his MGEs are not healed.
Yes! Our behavior is not the sin, they are only symptoms of the disease SIN. One's outward actions do not necessarily reveal the inner man. Think of the demoniacs! Paul, Romans 7, understood that it is not only in the actions, but not even the desire.

Matthew 5:27-28 You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery: 28 But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matthew 15:19-20 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashed hands defiles not a man.

Matthew 19:17-21 And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 20 The young man said to him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said to him, If you will be perfect, go and sell that you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

1 John 2:9-11 He that said he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loves his brother stays in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hates his brother is in darkness, and walks in darkness, and knows not where he goes, because that darkness has blinded his eyes.

1 John 3:14-16 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brothers. He that loves not his brother stays in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.

1 John 4:20-21 If a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar: for he that loves not his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loves God love his brother also.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: APL] #160852
01/26/14 08:05 PM
01/26/14 08:05 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,584
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
The MGEs were in the fruit. Is that ambiguous? What was in the fruit was not to cause death, that also is clear.

Thank you. That is unambiguous.

However, it is contradictory. Isn't it a postulate of this theory that MGEs are lethal? If there were MGEs in the fruit, then that would make the fruit deadly. Did I misunderstand the nature of MGEs?
What was in the fruit did not need to be lethal! BUT - what was in the fruit could have been devices to block cellular defense mechanisms, where by Satan could then implant other weapons, opening the door as it were.

But if that was the case, then the fruit had in it MGEs that changed Adam's information system. And regardless of its immediate effects, this paradigm considers that change to be sin. Hence, the fruit contained sin, which ALWAYS kills.

There is no such thing as a harmless MGE, since MGEs=sin. Right?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: APL] #160853
01/26/14 08:58 PM
01/26/14 08:58 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,584
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
MGEs and epigentic switching being pass down the generations in real, not legal. But note - the MGE do not determine behavior, YOU DO. The MGE give the propensity to the behaviors we call sin.

But didn't Melashenko say that even if all our actions were OK, the fact that we have MGEs/propensities is the main problem God has to solve? So, a person whose actions are perfect will still die eternally if his MGEs are not healed.
Yes! Our behavior is not the sin, they are only symptoms of the disease SIN. One's outward actions do not necessarily reveal the inner man. Think of the demoniacs! Paul, Romans 7, understood that it is not only in the actions, but not even the desire.

But in this paradigm, MGEs and epigenetic switches are passed down from father to son. Therefore, sin and its inevitable death are passed from one generation to the next, Eze 18 notwithstanding.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: asygo] #160854
01/26/14 08:59 PM
01/26/14 08:59 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,584
California, USA
Furthermore, the propensities/desires themselves are sins, regardless of one's actions.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: APL] #160894
01/27/14 04:31 PM
01/27/14 04:31 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,584
California, USA
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: APL
The MGEs were in the fruit. Is that ambiguous? What was in the fruit was not to cause death, that also is clear.

Thank you. That is unambiguous.

However, it is contradictory. Isn't it a postulate of this theory that MGEs are lethal? If there were MGEs in the fruit, then that would make the fruit deadly. Did I misunderstand the nature of MGEs?
What was in the fruit did not need to be lethal! BUT - what was in the fruit could have been devices to block cellular defense mechanisms, where by Satan could then implant other weapons, opening the door as it were.

If there was something in the fruit that suppressed Adam's cellular defense mechanisms, that's harmful, isn't it? That means that either God's perfect creation had harmful elements, or Satan was able to sow his evil seeds in Eden before Adam disobeyed. Both options are unpalatable.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: asygo] #160899
01/27/14 05:33 PM
01/27/14 05:33 PM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
I checked this morning, and lecture #3 has been posted so the Loma Linda presentation must have gone on without technical difficulties. The title, is "Another look at sin. Part 1: The Human Condition". Part 3 discusses the impact of mobile genetic elements on human health and disease.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: APL] #160910
01/27/14 11:29 PM
01/27/14 11:29 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,584
California, USA
Does it answer any of my recent questions?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: asygo] #160911
01/28/14 01:19 AM
01/28/14 01:19 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
If there was something in the fruit that suppressed Adam's cellular defense mechanisms, that's harmful, isn't it? That means that either God's perfect creation had harmful elements, or Satan was able to sow his evil seeds in Eden before Adam disobeyed. Both options are unpalatable.

Good point.

Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: Rosangela] #160914
01/28/14 02:05 AM
01/28/14 02:05 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
If there was something in the fruit that suppressed Adam's cellular defense mechanisms, that's harmful, isn't it? That means that either God's perfect creation had harmful elements, or Satan was able to sow his evil seeds in Eden before Adam disobeyed. Both options are unpalatable.
Was it poison, that would cause death? Nope. Was it Satan's goal to kill Adam and Eve? Nope.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: Rosangela] #160915
01/28/14 02:14 AM
01/28/14 02:14 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
If there was something in the fruit that suppressed Adam's cellular defense mechanisms, that's harmful, isn't it? That means that either God's perfect creation had harmful elements, or Satan was able to sow his evil seeds in Eden before Adam disobeyed. Both options are unpalatable.

Good point.
Rosangela, I did not know you were listening to this series.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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