Kland, you and I are in absolute agreement as to the validity, soundness, and truthfulness of the 28FB. You believe each and every one of them are "sound doctrine".

PS - Dividing fundamental truths into 28FB is simply a matter of convenience. There is nothing sacred about how many ways FB truths are divided and enumerated. Fundamental truths are the same yestersay, today, and forever.

But that is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about you "dividing" them on the fly as fits your purpose against someone.

And I'm talking about you using them as always in existence as one and the same as the Law of God.

Kland, I don't understand you. Please elaborate. Document.

Sigh.




Show that the Jews, Jesus, has the same FB as "The 28 +/-". All you can say it doesn't matter how they are specified. That's bogus.

Kland, I cannot figure out what you are saying. Jesus is the truth. The truth is, therefore, eternal. I didn't make up the 28FB. Don't blame me if you don't like them.

Right. The 27 FB were "made up" by a group of progressive-leaning Adventists who determined to put their bent into the expression of said beliefs which would then be adopted by the world church. It was an ingenious method of influencing what people perceived to be their own beliefs and doctrines within the church.

I'll believe truth as I see it expressed in the Word of God. I prefer its expression there over any other such expression of it as one might encounter in the world.

Satan himself can express truth. Remember, the three temptations of Christ in the wilderness all employed "truth" from the scriptures. If Satan can use scripture to his own ends, why should any one of us not be leery of such as the 28 Fundamentals purport to portray in their own mode of expression "beside" the Bible?

How you, Mike, can have taken up with the idea that the 28 FB are equivalent and equal to the Bible is beyond me. What saith the LORD on the matter? " We then took the position that the Bible, and the Bible only, was to be our guide; and we are never to depart from this position." Ellen White, Letter 105, 1903.

You have departed, Mike. I cannot, and will not, depart from this position. The Bible ONLY is to be my guide. The Adventist creed is not my guide. The Bible is my only creed.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

GC, what does the Bible teach? What is the truth? What is sound doctrine? Are members of the Remnant Church free to believe as they wish? What is false doctrine? Do you and I and everybody else decide what is truth and what is false doctrine? Is the Bible so clear as to not require the inspired guidance of people like Paul and Ellen White - people Jesus raised up to lead and rule the church?

John
20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.


Hebrews
13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation.
13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.

Galatians
1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

2 Thessalonians
3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
3:15 Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother.

Mike,

If you believe that the 27-28 FB are more clear than the Bible, it is clear to me that you have begun to depart from the teachings of both the Bible and of Mrs. White.

If you wish to imply that the Bible is not sufficiently clear, what is it you are really saying? If the BIble is not clear, how could unisnpired men write a list of beliefs and make them clearer?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

GC, you didn't answer my questions. You also misunderstood my post.

PS - Are you certain the 3AM are so clear as not to require the prophetic guidance of God through Ellen White? "The remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." "Thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Matthew
18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican.
18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The Authority Invested in the Church

Christ gives power to the voice of the church. "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." No such thing is countenanced as one man's starting out upon his own individual responsibility and advocating what views he chooses, irrespective of the judgment of the church. God has bestowed the highest power under heaven upon His church. It is the voice of God in His united people in church capacity which is to be respected. 431 {CCh 241.4}

The Word of God does not give license for one man to set up his judgment in opposition to the judgment of the church, neither is he allowed to urge his opinions against the opinions of the church. If there were no church discipline and government, the church would go to fragments; it could not hold together as a body. There have ever been individuals of independent minds who have claimed that they were right, that God had especially taught, impressed, and led them. Each has a theory of his own, views peculiar to himself, and each claims that his views are in accordance with the word of God. Each one has a different theory and faith, yet each claims special light from God. These draw away from the body, and each one is a separate church of himself. All these cannot be right, yet they all claim to be led of the Lord. {CCh 241.5}

Our Saviour follows His lessons of instruction with a promise that if two or three should be united in asking anything of God it should be given them. Christ here shows that there must be union with others, even in our desires for a given object. Great importance is attached to the united prayer, the union of purpose. God hears the prayers of individuals, but on this occasion Jesus was giving especial and important lessons that were to have a special bearing upon His newly organized church on the earth. There must be an agreement in the things which they desire and for which they pray. It was not merely the thoughts and exercises of one mind, liable to deception; but the petition was to be the earnest desire of several minds centered on the same point. 432 {CCh 242.1}

The church is God's appointed agency for the salvation of men. It was organized for service, and its mission is to carry the gospel to the world. From the beginning it has been God's plan that through His church shall be reflected to the world His fullness and His sufficiency. The members of the church, those whom He has called out of darkness into His marvelous light, are to show forth His glory. The church is the repository of the riches of the grace of Christ; and through the church will eventually be made manifest, even to "the principalities and powers in heavenly places," the final and full display of the love of God. 433 {CCh 242.2}