I have heard a Catholic Father preach to his congregation in Germany that all of the Protestants will be lost unless they join the Catholic church

I guess I'm not the first to notice the similarity.

You are right, it is six hundred threescore and six. I was just looking at it as the number six being the day humans were created, and being one less than seven, just short of perfection or completeness. Why 666, why not just 6, if it is "the number of a man".
Visually, it looks like three sixes. With three systems of evil: Dragon, Beast, False Prophet, it seems as though there ought to be a connection.

Just something that occurred to me. I wondered what others thought about it.

Thanks for your comment, MM.

The understanding of numbers comes from our mathematical culture. In Greek and Roman times, they did not generally have placeholders in numbers like we do today. For example, when we write the number 25, we think of 2x10 (raised to the first power, 10) + 5 x 10 (raised to the zero power, which is just 1), or in other words, we think of 20+5 = twenty five. We do not think of 2 and 5 nor do we think of 2 + 5. The placeholder tells us that the 2 is to be multiplied by 10. If we wrote 367, then we think of 3x10(raised to the second power, or 100) + 6x10(raised to the first power, or 10) + 7x10(raised to the zero power, or just 1), or 300 + 60 + 7 = three hundred sixty seven. The position to the left of the number on the far right of the number that is just to the left of the decimal point (implied or actually there) is determined by its placeholder value. Each position over to the left increases the multiplier of 10 by an additional factor of 10. This concept of the placeholder was generally missing in Greek and Roman mathematics. I seem to recall that the Babylonians may have sometimes used a simple form of placeholder in some of their mathematics, but it was not well developed like we have and used very little.

So, when John wrote the words which we translate as six hundred sixty six, not one single person in ancient times would have thought "666" like we do because they did not write numbers that way. This simple fact of history and culture of the time destroys the idea that John was intending to write 666 as we think of it, nor was he writing these as three sixes in a row. Had John written three sixes in a row, the mathematical culture of the times would have dictated that they take the words, hex hex hex, and ADD them together to arrive at the sum of 18, not 666. The reason is that the leftmost hex would NOT have the value of 600, but merely 6. The next hex would have the value of 6, not 60, but the final hex would have the value of 6. And with the rules they used, adding hex hex hex would give theme 18.

The way the number was actually written indicates that the correct interpretation is six hundred sixty six, which we write as 666. John made it very clear what he was told by the angel so we would not make a mistake about this. And the woman is connected with Babylon, so the number must come from Babylon. History shows that is exactly where it originated.

If you go back to this idea of hex hex hex, you will find this in church history being mentioned during the writing of the documents that eventually became known as the Symposium on Daniel and Revelation that you can buy at the ABC stores online. I recall reading where Beatrice Neal (she and her husband came to teach at Union College in the theology department when I was working for Union College after my graduation there in 1978) wrote about this idea of three sixes in a row in the section on Revelation. If I recall, these ideas were proposed by her in the early 1980s as part of the study that was dealing with the questions put forward by Desmond Ford. Somewhere along the line, possibly because she mentions this in that document, this idea resonated with church leaders and they decided that this was a very good idea as a substitute for the Vicarius Filii Dei idea that the church has promoted in the past, but was unable to actually prove because of its inability to prove this phrase was actually written on the pope's hat.

They gave it a nice try, perhaps, but it was not, in my thinking, all that well thought out. God created man on the 6th day and clearly declared that day to be a good day. Who are we to say otherwise regardless of what followed? The only day that can be said to be a symbol of man as a sinner is the day on which he sinned (and it should be obvious that this day then symbolizes the evil of man), which we know only was not on the Sabbath. It was on any of the first six days of the week and we cannot pin it down. Thus, we have no basis to say that the number 6 in the creation and sin story is a symbol of man as a sinful being. That just does not fly. I think they need a bigger (and better) theory!

Wendell, thanks for sharing. I like the Babylonian Amulet way of explaining 666. However, it does not explain (or does it) why John describes it as the number of the name of the man of the beast.

Maybe it would be better if we attempt to interpret this number in Revelation 13, the same way as we have dealt with other numbers in the Apocalypse; specifically by regarding them with symbolic qualities. The number six indicates human earthly attempts at that which is heavenly. Seven is the number of perfection, and is descriptive of universality, and is therefore the symbol pertaining to God, while six is a type of a deceptive fullness, importance, and seeming completeness which appears to be perfect, but in reality falls short of the heavenly ideal.

Let's do some comparing within the book of Revelation itself





THE Number of the NAME of the BEAST

Roman power -- LATEINOS

As early as Irenaeus (A.D.130-202) some Christians connected 666 with the Roman power calculating the "Latin ruling kingdom" LATEINOS and finding it added up to 666. The letters of this word makes up exactly 666, thus; 30. 1. 300. 5. 10. 50. 70. 200. in all 666.

Roman spirituality -- VICARIUS FILII DEI

Even though the Donation of Constantine was not written by Constantine and is a forgery written some 300 years later to advance the power of the Roman church; this document was cited in writing by no less than ten popes as proof of their authority and sovereignty!
"As the Blessed Peter is seen to have been constituted VICARIUS FILII DEI on earth, so the Pontiffs who are the representatives of that same chief..."

As late as 1968 Pope Paul VI used the term "Vicarius Filli Dei" twice in his papal decrees. (See Bafianae, January 11, 1968, and Rivi Muniensis, August 9, 1965)

It is no secret that the popes claim to be the vicars of the Son of God. The number of the name matches -- 666


Roman Church -- Babylon

The 666 identifies Babylon. Am amulet worn by priests of Babylon contained a configuration of numbers in a square -- each of it's columns adding up to 111, and when all six totals from the columns are added up the total is 666.

In the Revelation prophetic numbers are always literal. The thing associated with it is always symbolic. For example:

1) 7 (literal) stars (symbolic)
2) 7 (literal) candlesticks (symbolic)
3) 4 (literal) beasts (symbolic)
4) 7 (literal) seals (symbolic)
5) 7 (literal) trumpets (symbolic)
6) 5 (literal) months (symbolic)
7) 7 (literal thunders (symbolic)
8) 1260 (literal) days (symbolic)

Mountain Man,

Well, indirectly it does explain the number. Here is how it does this. The amulets were based on numbers that add up to 666 and these were first done in Babylon as part of their belief in protecting themselves from the capricious nature of the gods, some good and some bad and you never knew just when they might strike you with bad luck. The important point is that this originated with Babylon.

Now, in Revelation 13, this number is brought back to view as part of the beast. But which beast is it talking about? The earth beast or the first beast?

The answer to that question is found in Revelation 17. There we have the woman who is labeled with the name Babylon. Most SDAs should know this means she is a symbol of the Catholic Church. BUT, and this is important, while its true that the name Babylon is a symbol of the Roman Church, its also a reference back to the original Babylon. We know from history that the Babylonians counted their gods and made up amulets to protect themselves from the capriciousness of the gods. Since the woman is Babylon, then this connects the number to her. Taking this back to Revelation 13, it tells us that the beast which represents the Roman Church is the one which has the number 666 attached to it. We know that is the first beast of Revelation 13. Many think its the second beast which has this number, and they're free to believe that if they want, but the evidence in the Bible and history points to the first beast.

Now, as to the number of his name and the name of the beast. You know, one very important rule to understand is that when a symbol is defined nearby, that definition should be used wherever it occurs so long as it fits. For example, we know from Daniel 2 that the gold head represents King Nebuchadnezzar because Daniel directly told Nebuchadnezzar that "you are the head of gold!"

Now, in Revelation 13:17 we find the word name used twice, once for the name of the beast and once for the number of his name. But this word name has a symbolic meaning, which everyone thinks is connected with the number that occurs in the next verse. But notice that the word name has no definition in verse 18, but it does have a definition in Rev. 14:1, where it clearly defines the word name to mean character. Putting this back into Rev. 13:17, it tells us that the ones who can buy or sell are those who have the "character" (name) of the beast or those who have the number of his "character" (name). To make this all clear, put this with Revelation 14:1 and you will find that you have a continuum with God's character at one end and the character of the beast at the other end. Those who have the character of the beast are allowed to buy and sell. Those who do not have the character of God but who also do not have the character of the beast can also buy and sell. The reason is that God counts them with the beast, as does the state also, or in other words, they are not like God's character, so they are counted as if they had the beast's character and thus they have the number of his character - they are judged as being of the same caliber - not loyal to God.

The problem with the idea that the name of the beast is Vicarius Filii Dei is that in Revelation 15:2 it says that those who are on the sea of glass includes those who have gotten the victory over the number of his name. How do you overcome the number 666? That number does NOT apply to ordinary people, but rather it applies to the beast. So, there is no way to overcome the title Vicarius Filii Dei or its number 666 as neither of these has any power over the ordinary person nor does either of these apply to the ordinary person But if the number of his name refers to overcoming character defects, then this statement makes perfect sense. Character is an issue that applies to EVERYRONE. Further, seeing it this way explains verse 16 in perfect harmony with verse 17 because in verse 16 it is character that makes the difference as to who goes along with the wishes of the beast or does not do that. And the same is true of verse 17, which harmonizes both verses together. Without this interpretation, you cannot harmonize these two verses together properly.

Wendall, if the origin of 666 is Babylonian worship and amulets, why does Jesus use it to describe the number of the name of the man of the beast?

Mountain Man,

I assume here that you believe that the number 666 is the number of his name. If so, could you please refer me to the verse which says that the number 666 is the number of his name? If not, then perhaps I do not correctly understand your question.

"The number of the beast" and "the number of his name" and "the number of a man" and "his number" are clearly the same "number". That number is "Six hundred threescore and six." It is the number of the name of the man of the beast.


"The mark of his name" and "the number of his name" are clearly the same "name". The "name" is "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." The "mark" and the "name" and the "number" are somehow connected to the traits and attributes written upon her forehead.