Where does Mrs. White state that Adventists should not run for political office?

I have understood her to say that Adventist ministers, teachers, and Bible workers (church employees) should not take up political questions; that Adventists should not vote for men who keep Sunday and promote its observance; and that Adventists should not yoke themselves together with unbelievers by joining a political party; but I have never seen her say that no Adventist should run for political office.

If you have a quote to that effect, I would appreciate seeing it. If you don't have such a statement, it would appear that Dr. Carson, not being a pastor or teacher, is not restricted from running for office. There seems to be a difference between "politics" and voting. Mrs. White urged Adventists to vote for what was right, including teaching us to vote on the Sabbath, if necessary, in favor of the prohibition against alcohol. If we are to vote, obviously we cannot be entirely separate from politics. What we are NOT to do is to make political issues a part of our message. The third angel's message, including the gospel and the health message, is our focus.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

"We cannot with safety vote for political parties; for we do not know whom we are voting for. We cannot with safety take part in any political scheme. {CCh 316.2}
"Those who are Christians indeed will be branches of the true vine, and will bear the same fruit as the vine. They will act in harmony, in Christian fellowship. They will not wear political badges, but the badge of Christ. {CCh 316.3}
"What are we to do, then?—Let political questions alone. {CCh 316.4}
"There is a large vineyard to be cultivated; but while Christians are to work among unbelievers, they are not to appear like worldlings. They are not to spend their time talking politics or acting politics; for by so doing they give the enemy opportunity to come in and cause variance and discord. {CCh 316.5}
"God's children are to separate themselves from politics, from any alliance with unbelievers.



"The Lord speaks of those who claim to believe the truth for this time, yet see nothing inconsistent in their taking part in politics, mingling with the contending elements of these last days, as the circumcised who mingle with the uncircumcised, and He declares that He will destroy both classes together without distinction. They are doing a work that God has not set them to do. They dishonor God by their party spirit and contention, and He will condemn both alike. {FE 482.1}

Dedication has posted relevant quotes from Sister White (thank-you, Sister D!),
I see no point in adding more.

Being Canadian, the only reason I am interested in American politics is the words of our Lord: "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."
Matthew 24:42

I believe it is the duty of every Christian to watch for the signs described by Jesus in chapter 24 of Matthew and indeed watch for all of the prophetic signs revealed in God's Word. Since it seems quite possible that Trump and or Carson may have a role in the imminent persecution of the Church; they both bear watching.

Did Daniel and his 4 friends broken Ellen White's or God's laws in being in politics?

Is there a law or Biblical instruction anywhere that tells us not to get into governmental affairs?

Incidentally, did everyone hear Trump's latest statement on torture?
In response to the terrorist attacks in Brussels Trump stated that "he would authorize waterboarding and "far worse" forms of torture".
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/donald-trump-torture-brussels-abdeslam/index.html

If "far worse" forms of torture can be allowed for terrorists what about other "dangerous" "fundamentalist" religious groups?

Daniel and his 4 (3?) friends were prisoners, kidnapped from Israel. I really don't think they had much choice. Also, they were appointed by the king, they did not run for office in some rabid popularity contest.

It is clear that as in the case of Joseph (another victim of kidnapping) in Egypt, God does place His people in positions of political leadership, if it suits His purpose. Again, this does not equate to chasing after power by appealing to the lowest common denominator.

I don't know if the Bible specifically mentions "getting into governmental affairs"; it does address the topic of seeking power over others:

"And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.
And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory." Mark 10:35-37

"And when the ten heard [it], they began to be much displeased with James and John.
But Jesus called them [to him], and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." Mark 10:41-45



"And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who [should be] the greatest.
And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, [the same] shall be last of all, and servant of all." Mark 9:33-35



"[Let] nothing [be done] through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name." Philippians 2:3-9

It is not our place to seek power, it is God who exalts whom He wishes.


"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." Isaiah 14:12-15


The Bible clearly teaches that Lucifer sought power and was brought low, while Jesus humbled Himself and was exalted and "given... a name which is above every name."

When considering embarking upon a vainglorious, career of compromise and political strife, whose example do you believe we should follow?

Elle, I realize that you do not accept the writings of Sister White, published following the death of James White, as prophetic. I presume this is why you did not accept the Ellen White quotes posted by dedication concerning running for political office, rather you asked for "a law or Biblical instruction".


I just noticed how you phrased your first question: "Did Daniel and his 4 friends broken Ellen White's or God's laws?"

Are you implying that Ellen White has a different set of laws than God?

We shouldn't loose sight of what had really happened in the past. The Lord sent King Nebuchednezzar to bring judgment on Judah. In reality, the house of Judah were the Lord's prisoners. King Nebuchednezzar was the Lord's servant. The Lord put Judah under the authority of 4 Beasts Kingdom that extended for 7 times(Lev 26:18,21,24,28; Dan 4:16,23,25,32).

If Israel would of been faithful to the word & ways of the Lord; they would of been the Head of all Nations(Deut 28:13). But because of disobedience and lack of faith -- they ended up as the TAIL of the nations(Deut 28:44). The Lord "sold" Israel to other nations (put Israel under the authority of other nations) 6 times before the 7th judgment-correction call came around. (see Post #179702)

Since Israel was split into 2 nations at the time of the 7th correctional judgment, the fate of these nations were seperated by two differents captivity : Israel was taken by the Assyrian, whereas Judah was taken by the Babylonians.


They did have a choice to rebel against the Babylonian authority.

But rebelling against the authority that God put above you is the same as rebelling against the Lord Himself.

AV Ro 13:1 " Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing."

Paul says that whatever government that is above us are God's ministers -- and we should pay tribute to them. I think this means not only in paying taxes when it applies, but also in offering the best of our gifts & talents like Joseph and Daniel and others did. And because of their godly presence & knowledge in these Beastly governments, they were able to manage these Beast government to better the lives of the people knowing these governments where under the Lord's authority; thus in reality they ultimately served the Lord for He's the one that set this government at the first place to serve His purpose.


At those era, officers were set by the king. There wasn't any "democracy" like they pretend that we have today; but their were still a popularity contest as the King chose those that was known in his kingdom with a particular gift.

Thus Daniel and Joseph was known from their popularity of their gift. Their loyalty and excelling service is what put them in the highest authority rank under the Beastly king but they were in position to work the politics and laws in favor for the Kingdom by which is ultimately God's kingdom. They served the beastly Kings but they knew they really served the King of kings.


I believe not only Joseph, Daniel, Ester, and all the rest of believers ever put in position of authority was serving the Lord's purpose; but also these Beastly Empires served the Lord's purposes -- for the Lord establish these for a very specific purpose. And if we do not recognize these establishment as the Lord's; then we are in rebellion against Him.

These texts are good, and I agree we shouldn't fight between ourselves to get into any position in His kingdom.

These positions are appointed by the Lord. He is the one that gives us a gifts to serve a certain function and role in His kingdom. Whatever position we have all is the same in the Lord's eyes for every position is needed and as important as another for the glory of the whole body.

Now relating this and the previous post with Ben Carson.

1. I don't perceive he's fighting for a position. He's going thru the process that is established by the establishment. His popularity comes from his excellent service in his field in the Medical Services.

2. If the Lord called him to run for the presidency, then he needs to obey. I'm sure Ben prayed about it. A big decision like this, knowing he was going to face the Church opposition because of our standard belief on this issue -- cannot be done without inquiring if it is the will of the Lord. No one here is in position to say the Lord didn't call him. I know very well that hearing God's voice clearly is not very easy. So, the possibility for Ben to not have heard clearly is very probable. Despite if he heard the Lord's voice right or not -- it is really not any of our business. And it is between him and the Lord. We all do mistakes in that area, and we all grow from it.

3. So personally, I do not think we are in position to criticize if he did the right decision or not. If Ben heard the Lord tell him to run for president, Ben needs to obey. If he mis-understood, I still believe that whatever we end up doing is still in His PLAN. It might be against His will for He never told us to do it; for the Lord knew we would disobey and still work this in His plan.

So I believe we are not in any position to judge-criticize Ben. I don't view that running for presidency is a sin. It is a sin if the Lord never called you to run for it. But whether He called Ben or not and if Ben heard clearly the Lord's voice well or not; it is not of our business. The Lord knows and will work that with Ben personally.

We need to support our brothers and sisters in their walk with the Lord where ever they are: at the bottom of the pit or the top of the mountain. If the Lord places you in communication with Ben and gives you a message for Ben in that matter, then you need to be the Lord's voice as He commanded you. But if the Lord never told you to speak on His behalf; then it is wiser to not speak especially in things we do not know or understand.