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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: His child] #179758
03/13/16 02:43 AM
03/13/16 02:43 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 509
Michigan, US
The Scripture is recorded that the king Herod was Satan's agent to "devour her child as soon as it was born" (Rev. 12:5).

Matt. 2:1-18 "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem....When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, ...he demanded of them where Christ should be born...Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently...for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him...Then Herod,...was exceeding wroth, .. and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem...from two years old and under...Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet,..."

In Rev. Chap. 12, the woman gave birth to Manchild, Jesus, but "her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne" (verse 5). Thus "the dragon was wroth with the woman (because he could not devour Manchild), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed," (Rev. 12:17) with the seven heads.

It makes more sense to me that the significance of the seven heads of the dragon is the counterpart to the christian eras (seven churches) rather than starting to count the dragon's seven heads from the ancient empire nations.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #179761
03/13/16 03:58 AM
03/13/16 03:58 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 509
Michigan, US
Upon the third plague, the rivers and fountains of water turned to blood which denotes condition of the fresh water became deadly. The third trumpet is announcing this coming plague. Rev. 8:10 "And the third angel sounded,...and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;"

Since the one third of the fresh water has not turned deadly in the world as yet, the third trumpet has to be considered as present and future event.

The heavenly angels are much to say when the third plague poured out.
"And I heard the angel of the waters say...And I heard another out of the altar say,..." Rev. 16:5,7

"...Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy...Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments." Rev. 16:5,6,7

Since the fallen star is involved, which denotes old serpent and his evil angels (Rev. 12:9), the heavenly angels have much to speak about in the third plague.

At the third trumpet's sound, there is a star fell from heaven.

Rev. 8:10 "And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;"

Luke 10:18 Jesus said, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven".

Seeing the correlation between the third plague and the third trumpet, surely God does foretell His secret to his servants the prophet before He performs it.

Amos 3:7 "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #179851
03/17/16 01:52 AM
03/17/16 01:52 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 509
Michigan, US
Heavenly angels are eagerly commenting that God is righteous in turning the fresh water to bloody or deadly. Another words, the angels are saying that the reason of shedding the blood of the saints and the prophets caused the water to turn bloody.

The fallen star, the devil, has revolted against God’s government. The saints and the prophets would not submit to him but rather become martyrs of the Lord. The third church of Pergamos mentions of the faithful martyr, Antipas, who was slain where Satan dwells. The black horse in the third seal depicts compromise. Heavenly angels have record of those who would keep their faith unto the martyrs’ death. Thereby, the angels are commenting, “"Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy...Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments." Rev. 16:5,6,7

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #179924
03/20/16 09:50 PM
03/20/16 09:50 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 509
Michigan, US
Can you hear the chorus of angels sing their rapturous songs, ascribing praise, honor, and glory to Jesus? They saw the wondrous love of Jesus who left all the glory and honor of heaven to demonstrate the plan of salvation. Jesus bore every indignity and slight which man could heap upon Him. He bore so patiently and meekly to the point of death. The angels saw the mystery of redeeming love. This our little world is the lesson book of the universe and the angels are commenting in their rapturous songs, "Amen" and "Amen" in the sevenfold praises, “Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might” (Rev. 7:12). They comprehend the greatness of the infinite love of God in the plan of redemption.
I believe that the angelic comment of praise in the Chapter 7 verifies that all the redeemed from the earth are presented in two groups of people: 1)the great multitudes and 2)the 144,000 who stand before the throne of God.

The multitudes "stood before the throne" is mentioned in Rev. 7:9 and the 144,000 is going to stand "before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple" (Rev.7:15). At this drama of the vision, the angelic host also "stood round about the throne" (Rev. 7:11) and sang "Amen" and "Amen".

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #179996
03/28/16 10:04 AM
03/28/16 10:04 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 509
Michigan, US
There are five teams of heavenly counsel in the throne room of the chapters 4 and 5.
1) throne of God
2) four living creatures
3) 24 elders
4) angels
5) universal beings

When Apostle John saw the vision of the throne room, he wept much. There was no man worthy to open the sealed book with seven seals, which meant the title deed of mankind. One of the elders said, "weep not" for the Lamb has prevailed to open the book. So Jesus is found worthy to open the book to redeem the sinners from the earth. Chapter 7 introduces those redeemed sinners, therefore: 1)the great multitudes(GM) and 2) 144,000.
These two groups of the redeemed will stand "before the throne of God" (Rev. 7:9,15) when the redemption complete. They will make the perfect seven teams of the heavenly assembly. If the 144,000 and the GM are the one and the same groups, where is an assurance that the resurrected saints
will stand "before the throne"? Can they ever united with the family of God in heaven? Didn't Jesus promised to all the overcomers to sit on the throne of God as He sat with the Father? (Rev. 3:21).
There was a question when each seal being opened in Rev. 6:17, saying, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" So the next chapter 7 is an interlude to answer this question. All the sealed of God on the earth will be redeemed: the 144,000 and the GM.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180018
03/31/16 03:27 AM
03/31/16 03:27 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 509
Michigan, US
The 144,000 are the "redeemed from the earth" (Rev. 14:3). Again it is mentioned in Rev. 14:4, "These were redeemed from among men." The 144,000 are "the firstfruits" (Rev. 14:4). And then, may I ask, where are the rest of the fruits?

The 144,000 "stand before the throne" (Rev. 7:15) and sing the song of Moses (Rev. 15:3,4). Will the rest of fruits—the resurrected saints— also sing redemption song? I suppose that the numberless saints who asleep in the Lord wanted to sing the redemption song before the throne someday. Psalm 30:4 says, "Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness."

In the Book of Revelation, 14 pieces of hymn are recorded. Each of the five groups from the chapters 4 and 5 sing their redemption song through out the Book of Revelation. The redeemed 144,000 also sing their redemption song with their harps (Rev. 15:2). What about the resurrected saints? Are they ever going to stand before the throne and sing their redemption song? Absolutely! The Great Multitudes (GM) will have palm branch in their hand and stand "before the throne" (Rev. 7:9) to sing with "a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb" (Rev. 7:10). Think about how much King David longed to sing praises to the Lord. "I will extol thee, my God, O king; and I will bless thy name for ever and ever. Every day will I bless thee; and I will praise thy name for ever and ever" (Psalm 145:1,2).

"In the Revelation all the books of the Bible meet and end." AA585.1
Bible prophecy in the book of Joel 2:28, for example, will ultimately fulfill in a greater scope at the book of Revelation.

Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and you daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"

The saints who sleep in the Lord have the assurance in the book of Revelation that their longing to praise God will be fulfilled. That is what the GM sang. See Rev. 7:9,10.

The 144,000 are from one nation, spiritual Israel, which signifies one faith that are sealed and perfectly united like an army with banners (Song of Sol. 6:10). But the GM came from all nations.

The 144,000 are the living ones and the GM are the resurrected saints at the Second Coming of Jesus. There are only two groups who would be raptured when Jesus returns to take His saints to the kingdom of God. See 1 Thess. 4:16,17.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180113
04/07/16 03:01 AM
04/07/16 03:01 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 509
Michigan, US
Quote:
The 144,000 are the "redeemed from the earth" (Rev. 14:3). Again it is mentioned in Rev. 14:4, "These were redeemed from among men." The 144,000 are "the firstfruits" (Rev. 14:4). And then, may I ask, where are the rest of the fruits?
[quote=Karen Y]

the 144,000 is the "holy seed" (Isa. 6:13) as the "firstfruits" (Rev. 14:4). The GM is all the redeemed who are resurrected at the Second Coming of Jesus. The firstfruits will be gathered by the "sickle" (Rev. 14:15,16) and the GM by the sound of the silver trumpet (1 Cor. 15:51,52). Jesus will come only for the two groups of the saints: the living and the dead arise. See 1 Thess 4:16,17.

We are told that 144,000 will go through the great time of trouble "such as was not since the beginning of the world" (Matt. 24:21). So there is a cry, says,"who shall be able to stand?" (Rev. 6:17). There will be a "great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth" (Rev. 16:18). The Seven Plagues so severe that "no flesh be saved" (Matt. 24:22) if those days not shortened. The humanity is threatened to be extinct. But the remnant of God, 144,000, are surviving during the wrath of God which poured out upon the earth. God says what He means. The 144,000 are the literal number. Apostle John even said, "I heard the number of them" (Rev. 7:4) clearly and distinctively as the trumpet sound (Rev. 1:10).

"How long halt ye between two opinions?" (1 Kings 18:21). Is 144,000 symbolic or literal? We are not to follow the majority but the testimony of Scripture.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180189
04/14/16 03:34 AM
04/14/16 03:34 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 509
Michigan, US
144,000 are the "called, and chosen, and faithful" to finish the battle of the great controversy between good and evil (Rev. Chapter 17).
Satan's power may appear strong but 144,000 will overcome them by the powers of Almighty God (Rev. Chapter 15).
144,000 are the overcomers of the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name (Rev. Chapter 13).
The triumphant of 144,000 is awesome militant of the Lord as the final runner. Heb. 11:40 "that they without us"— 144,000— "should not be made perfect".
The four winds held in check until these 144,000 are sealed. God forbids the evil spirits to harm the sealed of God in Rev. 9:4, which says, "it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads". Remember that the tree depicts leader and the green grass depicts common people.

When the sealing is completed, there is command to release the hold of the four angels in Revelation; "Loose the four angels" (9:14) and the voice came out "from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God" (9:13).

We are told that the Seven Trumpets are announcement of the coming catastrophes in the world in Seven Plagues. The last three woes are more urgent and severe announcements than the first four trumpets, which denotes the worldwide impacts. See Rev. Chapters 8-9.

1 Cor. 14:8 "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"

The announcement of the Seven Trumpets must awaken the Seven Churches, in turn that the Seven Churches will be prepared for the complete sealing. The sealed of God are not fearful of the coming Seven Plagues. So with a loud voice—"cried mightily with a strong voice" (Rev. 18:2)—the sealed of God will make known the coming Seven Plagues to the world for the final call.

The interpretation of the Seven Trumpets must be reconsidered. The messages are given to prepare the church; it gives us visions.
Proverbs 29:18 says, "Where there is no vision, the people perish".
no wonder that the Laodicean church is so lukewarm because of no vision of the Seven Trumpets.

In the past the Seven Trumpets have been interpreted as corresponding eras as the Seven Churches and the Seven Seals. I am convinced, rather, that the Seven Plagues correspond with the Seven Trumpets in the interpretation. God will not pour out the Seven Plagues without warnings. Our God is merciful God. He promised that He will let us know what He is going to do. Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180232
04/17/16 02:24 AM
04/17/16 02:24 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 509
Michigan, US
it is easy to notice correlations on the fourth series of the major themes—seven churches, seven seals, seven trumpets and seven plagues—of the Book of Revelation.

Fourth plague is poured upon the sun. It scorched men with fire and great heat.
The sun, moon, and stars were made for "seasons, and for days, and years" (Gen. 1:14) on the fourth day of the creation. They were made for the signs of time. So the sun must be showing the signs of time when it scorches men with great heat as the plague.

The fourth church hints us the reason of the sun exhibiting signs of time. In Rev. 2:20 we are told the woman Jezebel taught and seduced the fourth church. She represents Baal worship. When king Ahab said to Elijah, "Art thou he that troubleth Israel?" (1 King 18:17), Elijah said, "I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim" (1 King 18:18).

The pale horse in the fourth seal denotes the Dark Ages when the papacy had power over the fourth part of the earth, "to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth" (Rev. 6:8).

The fourth trumpet is sounding the alarm in a figurative language that the "third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise" (Rev. 8:12). The passage is saying that the heavenly bodies are showing the signs of the time. This is the announcement of the fourth plague. The message is clear to us that the Sunday worship is wrong. It is the counterfeit of Sabbath.

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" is the commandment of God in the fourth commandment. The name of the Lord is mentioned seven times in the Ten Commandments and the fourth commandment alone has three times.

I find very interesting that the fourth of the series has connection to the fourth commandment.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #180381
04/27/16 01:54 AM
04/27/16 01:54 AM
Daryl  Offline

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I am watching a live series of meetings (Unlocking Revelation) out of Michigan by Jay Galimore on You Tube, who said some interesting things about the 7 trumpets and the 7 plagues that you would probably also find interesting.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

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