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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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Cultural Adventists
#34332
04/29/05 05:55 PM
04/29/05 05:55 PM
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OP
Full Member
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 287
USA
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Is your faith a divine experience with God or just a vehicle for a healthy lifestyle? What does it mean to be a cultural Adventist? Clifford Goldstein explains. http://www.adventistreview.org/2005-1517/story4.html
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Re: Cultural Adventists
#34333
04/29/05 09:23 PM
04/29/05 09:23 PM
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Interesting article, but it raises the question: what percentage of SDAs are 'cultural Adventists'? I can't think of any with whom I'm personally acquainted.
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Re: Cultural Adventists
#34334
05/01/05 03:39 AM
05/01/05 03:39 AM
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I think this is the crux of the article. Quote: from Clifford GoldsteinThink about it. What makes a Seventh-day Adventist? It's not ethnicity, not nationality, not politics, not social or economic status, not gender, not age, not language; there is only one thing that makes us Seventh-day Adventists--and that's our beliefs. We're who we are only because of what we believe--period. Get rid of those beliefs, water them down, or push them to the sidelines, and we're left with nothing that justifies our corporate existence. Without our beliefs, we've got about as much mission and purpose as your local Britney Spears fan club. |
John, though I’ve never met any Adventists who would call themselves “cultural Adventists”, I have met plenty of Adventists who take “exception to many of the church's theological beliefs and religious practices.” I don’t always agree with Goldstein, but he’s right that without belief in the core distinctive doctrines of the Adventist church, its members are part of something that is not much more than a social club. The church is irrelevant without belief in our doctrines and mission.
Jeff
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Re: Cultural Adventists
#34335
12/17/05 01:48 AM
12/17/05 01:48 AM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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I'm going to disagree with Goldstein here, because he's being superficial as usual. Practical godliness is the outcome of the Adventist system of beliefs: so our aim of practical godliness such as Jesus supplies in all its glorious perfection makes us Adventists.
Goldstein has watered down the doctrines himself, not explaining JBF as clearly as necessary - as Ps. Kirkpatrick does, or santification not being an indispensible elements of the gospel, and not supported the sanctuary cleansing judgement in its full, practical, spiritual context for us. He's not preaching the distinctive doctrines as much as he's promoting them.
Are our journals supplying the clarity and strength of message and practical belief we stand for? - just incessantly dealing in spiritual milk? With less encouragement & nurture coming at us than we need, no wonder minimal attitudes to Adventist identity become an ever present problem.
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Re: Cultural Adventists
#34336
12/18/05 09:12 PM
12/18/05 09:12 PM
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I would have to agree with the general thrust of the article, even if I don't agree with the author's theology, because the contact I have had with what would be called a 'cultural adventist' has not shown me that they do much more than claim the name -much like some church of England attendees here in england- therefore a 'cultural adventist' is no adventist at all! For as we all agree, I'm sure, just being a member or owning the church name won't save us. Let's study and make sure that we don't hold any of the 'new' or 'latest' watered down doctrines.
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Re: Cultural Adventists
#34337
12/21/05 04:14 AM
12/21/05 04:14 AM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Yes, I was failed to mention when disagreeing with Goldstein personally that I could agree with his article. Cliff has managed to water down significant doctrines in his Review column so he has to answer his own question when challenging those who do the same. But then, so do we all. Back in 1999 at the campmeeting in Johannesburg, in the packed-out church/theatre of the SDA high school, Sedaven, the main speaker, Morris Venden, gave a list of contrasts between social and spiritual Adventists, drawn from his own observations. (I still have quiet reservations about the saved in sin concession implied by his relationship theology - a theology which is increasingly being promoted, globally). He had 2 lists of ten points, but I failed to take a copy from him afterwards. About the only social point I recall is habitually not mentioning the name of Jesus in conversation. But socialites are socialites....On the spiritual list the name of Jesus was "mentioned". What was really noticeable - which I have remembered, was that the tension in the air among the 500 odd Adventists present palpably built up from half way through the first list till the very end of the second list: everyone recognised him or herself as a socialite! The last item on the second list released the tension as an audible but momentary collective breathing out- that item was: they go to campmeeting. From my personal observations we members generally are lulled into being cultural Adventists by a lack of instruction in the spiritual truths of the fundamental beliefs from the pulpit or afternoon programmes, or prayer meetings or anything, unless our personal devotions help out enough. My spiritual awareness and experience has come by God providentially leading me to particular books which challenged laity and pastors alike to show the true size of God's grace and righteousness. There are cultural Adventists, who truly give the church a bad image and don't deserve the name from our perspective, and there are default cultural Adventists who are such by accident and not knowing it. Both need intercessary prayer as a group. [ December 20, 2005, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Colin ]
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Re: Cultural Adventists
#34338
12/21/05 12:20 AM
12/21/05 12:20 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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What about when people are not interested in coming to afternoon or midweek things such as prayergroup or biblestudy?
/Thomas
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Re: Cultural Adventists
#34339
12/21/05 01:16 AM
12/21/05 01:16 AM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Perhaps the no-showers are simply Laodicean: not finding the time, not making the time, not having the energy anymore to find or make the time, because they're not fired up mentally about the message anymore, or whatever reason they've come up with. Which is most of us really....
Aren't 95% of us cultural Adventists then?
So, that divine experience - walking with the Spirit - solves it? The worship debate - this forum's theme - is settled, in my understanding, by discovering God's own style of music. No 'traditionalists' object to that notion, but the 'contemporary' camp doesn't want to know what that answer looks like or whether it can be found. But, what else is our divine experience meant to have for us in selecting worship methods?
Goldstein's appeal for thorough study is what we can do, even if he doesn't stick to the proper conclusions when he studies.
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Re: Cultural Adventists
#34340
12/21/05 01:29 AM
12/21/05 01:29 AM
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Or maybe they have little children and feel that their priority is with them, not at a mid week church service. We should never judge until we've walked a mile in anothers shoes.
Redfog
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Re: Cultural Adventists
#34341
12/21/05 01:31 AM
12/21/05 01:31 AM
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Oh sorry, for those not in the US a "mile" is a measure of distance Redfog
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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