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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79330
09/18/06 05:00 PM
09/18/06 05:00 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
It seemed to me from reading the atonement day passages from leviticus that this event would correspond more to the cross than anything else. If the Pesach lamb was killed in rememberence of Gods salvation and the atonement sacrafices for the forgiveness of sins, ehm, what am I missing?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79331
09/22/06 01:34 PM
09/22/06 01:34 PM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
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Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Quote.
The good news of the judgment is that Jesus, in His righteousness, gets us through the judgment because He stands there in our place.
Unquote.

What is he doing in our place?

Quote.
The good news of the judgment is that we don't have to stand in our own righteousness. We can stand in the righteousness of Jesus. That we are judged by works doesn't mean that we are saved by them; we are saved, instead, only through the righteousness of Jesus, which is credited to us by faith, a faith that is always manifested by works. This righteousness covers us the moment we, through a complete surrender of ourselves to Christ, claim it for ourselves, and it stays with us (though not unconditionally) right through the judgment. After all, what good would being covered by that righteousness do any of us if we did not have it when we needed it the most, which would be in the judgment?
Unquote.

Why could we not stand in our own righteousness? What do we lack?

Are we really saved by the righteousness of Christ credited to us? Or are we saved by the grace of God in our own righteousness?

In His love

James S.

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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79332
09/22/06 03:37 PM
09/22/06 03:37 PM
the1888message  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
If we have true faith then we will have true works. Works come from Love of God. We are preordained that we should walk (live)in them.
We do the works of our faith. We should not have to count them or worry about how many works we have. This is a grave error in "goldstien's" question. It seems that we need to keep trackof them or something.
Maybe he did not mean it in this way but this is how it came out to me.

Peace and Grace
David


The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79333
09/22/06 03:42 PM
09/22/06 03:42 PM
the1888message  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
Quote:

But, should our faith be based on our works? Shouldn't works, instead, be a result of our faith?

I just thought of the following text:

Quote:


Mat. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



What's wrong in this situation?

What good did their works do them here?

What was lacking?

What role did faith play here?

What role should faith play?

What role should works play?

Quote:


Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.







Eph 2:8 is a good qoute but you really need to add in verses 9 and 10.

"Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."


The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79334
09/22/06 06:13 PM
09/22/06 06:13 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Tuesday's study on the person who went in without wearing the wedding garment is a miniature version of the Investigative Judgment.

Quote:


Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.



We have the king who looking over, or investigating the guests, noticed that one of the guests wasn't wearing the wedding garment, which symbolizes the garment, or robe, of Christ's righteousness. When the king asked why he wasn't wearing the wedding garment, he was speechless.

Quote:


Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.




What was the result of this speechless guest not wearing the wedding garment?

Quote:


Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



What you have just seen was the Investigative Judgment in this parable.

From Tuesday's study:

Quote:


In this parable we see a clear example of someone who heeded the invitation to the wedding but not the conditions. He refused to accept what the owner offered him: the robe of Christ's perfect righteousness and, thus, upon investigation, was found wanting.
----------
Notice, the parable said that both the good and the bad came. It didn't say whether the man without the garment was good or bad. In one sense it made no difference: Before God in judgment, we all—"good" or "bad"—without a garment stand condemned. What the guest needed at the wedding is the same thing that we need in the judgment, something covering us; otherwise, we will be cast out where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. That covering, symbolized by the garment in the parable, is the righteousness of Jesus, credited to His followers by faith and it is their only hope now and in the judgment.
-------------
Whether through the imagery of the blood, or the garment, the point is the same: We need something other than ourselves to get us through the judgment. And the good news is that, through the sacrifice of Jesus, we have all that we need: the righteousness of God Himself (see Rom. 3:21, 22; 10:3; 2 Pet. 1:1) credited to us by faith.



Works will not save us, however, by our works, or fruits, we shall be known. The works, or fruits, of righteousness followed those wearing the garment, however, no matter how good or bad a person has been, even good works, without wearing the robe of Christ's righteousness will not save that person.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79335
09/22/06 11:09 PM
09/22/06 11:09 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Wednesday's study is on the fact that there isn't any condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

Quote:


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



Those who are in Christ Jesus DO NOT do the works of the flesh.

Those who are in Christ Jesus DO the works of the Spirit.

Our good works do not save us, but our bad works can condemn us.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79336
09/22/06 11:19 PM
09/22/06 11:19 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
From Thursday's study comes this interesting double quote:

Quote:


"But while we should realize our sinful condition, we are to rely upon Christ as our righteousness, our sanctification, and our redemption. We cannot answer the charges of Satan against us. Christ alone can make an effectual plea in our behalf. He is able to silence the accuser with arguments founded not upon our merits, but on His own."—Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 472. The futility of our works for salvation should cause us to lean totally on the mercy and merits of Christ. Then, out of love and thankfulness for the assurance of salvation that's ours through Christ, we serve Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and body, a service that's expressed in works. How else could it be?




In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79337
09/23/06 01:07 AM
09/23/06 01:07 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city" - Rev. 22:14.

Why should we wore another robe (of Christ) while we are blessed having our robe washed and have the right to enter the gate of heaven and to the tree of life?

In His love

James S

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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79338
09/23/06 01:10 AM
09/23/06 01:10 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Requote
Are we really saved by the righteousness of Christ credited to us? Or are we saved by the grace of God in our own righteousness?
Unquote.

I would ask this in the class today

Happy Sabbath

In His love

James S

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Re: Lesson Study #13 - The Gospel and JUDGMENT #79339
09/23/06 06:28 PM
09/23/06 06:28 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Quote:

Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city" - Rev. 22:14.

Why should we wore another robe (of Christ) while we are blessed having our robe washed and have the right to enter the gate of heaven and to the tree of life?

In His love

James S



The KJV says:

Quote:


Rev. 22:14 KJV Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.



The "wash their robes" in the ASV is "do his commandments" in the KJV, therefore, the KJV answers your question.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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