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Re: Lesson Study #14 - The Meaning of the JUDGMENT TODAY
#79561
09/29/06 10:33 PM
09/29/06 10:33 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The way I personally think about the issue is that God will not take anyone to heaven who will not be happy there. Conversely, He will take everyone to heaven who will be happy there. God loves me, and will what is best for me.
Paul expressed the thought well when he said, "I know in whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able, to keep that which I've commited, unto him against that day."
(btw, I understand these were the last words of EGW, or close)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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Re: Lesson Study #14 - The Meaning of the JUDGMENT TODAY
#79562
09/29/06 11:23 PM
09/29/06 11:23 PM
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SDA
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USA
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Colin, you say the IJ is to make us christlike. I agree. What troubled me about the final lesson was that it did not explain how the work of Christ in the Holiest accomplishes that - what is special about it. I haven't read the entire quarterly but I'm wondering, did Cliff quote any of those quotes that many Adventist's dread lately - you know the ones I mean - that we will stand without a mediator, (Vendon wrote a book called Never Without an Intercessor - maybe that was a chapter in one of his books), that we have to be spotless, that only those who are purified will live to see Christ come, etc, etc. If we had some more discussion on what she is saying in those difficult passages, balancing them with other texts and quotes, we would have a less distorted picture. Can you add anything that will tell us what is special about the work of Christ in the Holiest as opposed to His work in the Holy? Why does the mighty angel of Rev 18, according to Ellen White, urge us to direct our attention there?
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Re: Lesson Study #14 - The Meaning of the JUDGMENT TODAY
#79564
09/30/06 02:57 AM
09/30/06 02:57 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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Regarding your question, Mark, there's a well known vision from EW:
I saw the Father rise from the throne, and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who arose when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm, and we heard His lovely voice saying, "Wait here; I am going to My Father to receive the kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to Myself." Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. On the hem of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest, and pray, "My Father, give us Thy Spirit." Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace.
The love being spoken of here can only be agape.
I know you addressed your question to Colin, but I'm quite sure Colin would agree with what I'm presenting here, and understands the point I'm making, so I'll stop here and let him decide if he'd like to develop the thought further.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson Study #14 - The Meaning of the JUDGMENT TODAY
#79566
09/30/06 05:49 PM
09/30/06 05:49 PM
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Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Quote:
Colin, you say the IJ is to make us christlike. I agree. What troubled me about the final lesson was that it did not explain how the work of Christ in the Holiest accomplishes that - what is special about it. I haven't read the entire quarterly but I'm wondering, did Cliff quote any of those quotes that many Adventist's dread lately - you know the ones I mean - that we will stand without a mediator, (Vendon wrote a book called Never Without an Intercessor - maybe that was a chapter in one of his books), that we have to be spotless, that only those who are purified will live to see Christ come, etc, etc.
Not a word of it, I'm afraid: it's a bit better than the usual story of Jesus substituting himself for us - our decision for faith is sealed and that faith is witnessed by our works, but of course they don't explain how we're sealed or what sealing involves for us.
As for Venden's book that you mention, check Larry's website for a critique of it, since Venden doesn't understand it either (do a search for it, it's not recent).
Quote:
If we had some more discussion on what she is saying in those difficult passages, balancing them with other texts and quotes, we would have a less distorted picture. Can you add anything that will tell us what is special about the work of Christ in the Holiest as opposed to His work in the Holy? Why does the mighty angel of Rev 18, according to Ellen White, urge us to direct our attention there?
I thought you were the specialist on the temple & sanctuary service on earth and in heaven...but I'm sure we can compare notes. As Herb Douglass makes clear in his book Why Jesus Waits, the remnant saints (from all 'corners' of the earth) are trained to live by following the Spirit's leading till they have fully grown into Christlikeness, rather than having the Spirit taken from them after Jesus has finished mediating his likeness to them...!
Seems our theologians who are promoted in print are scared of the heights of the gospel that Ellen White refers to and spells out...it's not orthodox protestantism, is it. Bring out some of her other statements which you say balance the picture; I don't think the ones you mention here, above, are unbalanced, but then one has to understand the whole mechanism and purpose of salvation that Jesus uses where he is.
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