How do you know they are not conditional? Which prophesies do you have in mind? (I can think of a few; we'll see if they match)

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Renamed as new topic created from this and subsequent posts. - Daryl

What about, for instance, the time prophecies, particularly the 70 week prophecy?

The 70 week prophecy certainly had a conditional aspect to it, as it involved the free will choice of Israel. That is, Israel could have chosen to accept Christ. That would have had a profound impact upon the time prophecies.

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To rename topic only. - Daryl

The prophecies which are not conditional are those which express the general purpose of God for humanity - for instance, the prophecies about the first and the second coming of Christ are not conditional, although there might be some conditional details about them (for instance, Christ could have come long ago if His people had fulfilled the conditions necessary for this to happen); the final events, and the millennium and post-millennium events are not conditional. I also believe Daniel's time prophecies are not conditional, because God already knew that Israel wouldn't accept Christ.

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To rename topic only. - Daryl

The prophesies about God's general plan for humanity are unconditional in the sense that they will happen. The timing is conditional. For example, when Christ comes again is conditional. Often EGW wrote, "Christ could have come before this," which shows it is conditional. In fact, Ellen White tells us what it is conditional upon, in this well known statement:[/color]



The last paragraph tells us that it is our privilege to hasten Christ's coming, which clearly is not possible if His coming were for a fixed date.

Regarding the prophecies of Daniel, according to the principles of Jer. 18, they must have been conditional, at least the ending of it, which should be clear to see. That is, Israel had every opportunity to repent and accept Christ. They didn't have to reject Him. To assert that the prophecy was unconditional is to assert that it had to happen, which is to assert that Israel had to reject Christ, which is to assert that Israel did not have free will.

By the way, whether a prophecy is conditional or not has nothing to do with what God knows. It has to do with whether or not the prophecy has conditions. Conditional means "subject to, implying, or dependent upon a condition."


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To rename topic only. - Daryl

The 70 week prophecy wasn't conditional as it clearly stated that Israel had 70 weeks to make a choice. They had the choice within that time period to either repent or not repent. They chose not to repent. When the 70 weeks came to an end, the choice they made was cemented in stone.

Within that same time period there were other things that were cemented in stone. The final week of the 70 week prophecy in relation to Christ was Israel's final week to make their choice. They had the choice to either accept Christ as the Messiah, or to reject Him as their Messiah. Even in their rejection of Christ they were given 3 1/2 more years to repent, as that was what remained of the 70 weeks time period. They sealed their rejection of Christ by the stoning of Stephen. They made their choice. The prophetic period ended. This was an unconditional time prophecy in that they had to make a choice within that time period, which they did. Unfortunately, they made the wrong choice.

"Conditional" means " "subject to, implying, or dependent upon a condition." I wrote that the end of the prophecy was clearly conditional. Here it is:



Had Israel repented, this would not have happened. Hence it was conditional, right?

Also the way you phrased things makes it appear to me that perhaps you are thinking in terms of God's arbitrarily setting a deadline, which isn't at all the case. As Paul points out:



Jesus said:



God wanted Israel to repent, and would have accept their repentance, whenever it was. God had been patient, and working with them for centuries. If finally came to a point to where they had so hardened their heart (especially when God Himself came and dwelt among them, and they still rejected Him) that there was nothing more that God could do for them as a nation.

(Added "perhaps" which I intended to have in original post) - Tom Ewall

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To rename topic only. - Daryl

Had Israel repented, it would still have been necessary for Christ to die for us.

Why are you making this comment? (i.e. what does it have to do with what's been being discussed; I'm not following the train of thought).

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To rename topic only. - Daryl

What I posted is based on the first part of your post #84680.