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Re: Do you agree?
[Re: asygo]
#86255
03/09/07 11:51 PM
03/09/07 11:51 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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Regardless of what one is reading, one will go wrong taking the viewpoint that everything written "must be correct," without considering elements such as context, grammar, and what Scripture reveals elsewhere.
Here's two quick examples. Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, today you will be with Me in paradise!" We read this and say, "The comma's in the wrong place!" How do we know? By taking these other elements into account.
Another example is the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. How do we know the statements regarding Lazarus and the Rich Man aren't really true? (regarding the state of the dead). Again, it's by taking into account what Scripture has revealed elsewhere, the context (this is a parable), and so forth.
Another thing to take into account is that prophets wrote according to their understanding. God's logic and way of expression is not expressed in Scripture. God inspired "holy men of old," but one can see the influence of the human upon what was written. Just a simple glance at Paul and John show great differences in style and expression.
Without question, the greatest expression of God was Jesus Christ. I've got some great quotes about this. I should put them together. (Note to self; don't be lazy).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Do you agree?
[Re: Rosangela]
#86327
03/13/07 03:52 AM
03/13/07 03:52 AM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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If I decide what applies to my life and what doesn't, I am the ultimate authority, not the Word of God. In a very real sense, that is true. Choose you this day whom you will serve. The will is the governing power in the nature of man. And you have to choose if you will submit yourself to God's word, or remain in slavery to self, sin, and Satan. So, each one of us is the ultimate authority in our lives. The only question is if we are willing to submit that authority to God's leading or not. When one chooses to submit to God's authority, he is basically saying, "I exercise my authority over myself by willingly choosing to do whatever God tells me to do." And that decision by man is always accompanied by power from God. Hence, "as the will of man cooperates with the will of God, it becomes omnipotent. Whatever is to be done at His command may be accomplished in His strength. All His biddings are enablings." COL 333
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Do you agree?
[Re: Rosangela]
#86328
03/13/07 04:07 AM
03/13/07 04:07 AM
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By the way, what are the passages with which you guys have so much trouble in Ecclesiastes? Which passages should not be taken as precepts of truth? Take these verses from Ecclesiastes 7: 16 Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself? 17 Do not be overly wicked, Nor be foolish: Why should you die before your time? I'm not saying that they are not true. But surely, they cannot be taken as is. Even Ecclesiastes 9:5 is problematic. For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. They have no more reward? The memory of them is forgotten? What about everything in the sanctuary that says the dead will be judged and rewarded according to the record? There's some splainin to do. Is it possible that some of the sentiments in the book were written from a godless viewpoint? Even if Solomon had already recovered by the time he wrote the book, that does not prevent him from writing things from his former perspective.
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Do you agree?
[Re: asygo]
#86342
03/13/07 12:51 PM
03/13/07 12:51 PM
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Brazil
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So, each one of us is the ultimate authority in our lives. The only question is if we are willing to submit that authority to God's leading or not. You may be the ultimate authority over your life, not over the Word of God. "I exercise my authority over myself by willingly choosing to do whatever God tells me to do." That's the point. You exercise authority to decide if you will obey or not, not to decide what you should obey and what you shouldn't. Is it possible that some of the sentiments in the book were written from a godless viewpoint? Even if Solomon had already recovered by the time he wrote the book, that does not prevent him from writing things from his former perspective. I consider this a dangerous position for a Christian to take, and Ellen White warns against this. “There are some that may think they are fully capable with their finite judgment to take the Word of God, and to state what are the words of inspiration, and what are not the words of inspiration. I want to warn you off that ground, my brethren in the ministry. ‘Put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.’ There is no finite man that lives, I care not who he is or whatever is his position, that God has authorized to pick and choose in His Word. {7BC 919.2} “Neither had He [God] laid it upon any man to bind the conscience of another, or to pass judgment upon His holy Word, defining what is inspired and what is human.” {12MR 372.2} “It takes all of eternity to unfold the glories and bring out the precious treasures of the Word of God. Do not let any living man come to you and begin to dissect God's Word, telling what is revelation, what is inspiration and what is not, without a rebuke. Tell all such they simply do not know. They simply are not able to comprehend the things of the mystery of God. What we want is to inspire faith. We want no one to say, ‘This I will reject, and this will I receive,’ but we want to have implicit faith in the Bible as a whole and as it is.” {7BC 919.9}
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Re: Do you agree?
[Re: asygo]
#86344
03/13/07 01:04 PM
03/13/07 01:04 PM
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Take these verses from Ecclesiastes 7:
16 Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself? 17 Do not be overly wicked, Nor be foolish: Why should you die before your time?
I'm not saying that they are not true. But surely, they cannot be taken as is. Why not? Luke 15:17; 18:9 give us a clue as to who are the overly righteous, and Matt. 11:25; Rom. 12:16 give us a clue about who are the overly wise – the overly righteous are those who are too righteous to be saved, and the overly wise are those who are too wise to be saved. Those destroy themselves. And the overly wicked are those who consider themselves too wicked to be saved, or unworthy of salvation – the opposite peril. They die before their time – that is, their lives is abbreviated by their sadness (2 Cor. 7:10) or they may even resort to suicide, like Judas. They have no more reward? The memory of them is forgotten? The key to this verse is in the verse which follows it: “they have no more for ever any share in all that is done under the sun.” Under the sun means under the present state of things, and the verse couldn’t be more true. This verse is an antidote against the belief in the reincarnation of souls and the belief in the immediate reward after death. But it is balanced with other verses of the same book which speak about the judgment (11:9; 12:14). After you die you have no more reward nor share in what is done under the sun, but one day you will be called to life again in order to be judged and receive your reward.
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Re: Do you agree?
[Re: Rosangela]
#86353
03/13/07 02:19 PM
03/13/07 02:19 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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If I decide what applies to my life and what doesn't, I am the ultimate authority, not the Word of God. If you don't decide, who's going to decide for you? God won't. Scripture is communication from God. Communication is not something which has a will to decide things. God has given us wills, and the ability to perceive truth. We decide whether or not we wish to receive the truth God sends our way.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Do you agree?
[Re: Tom]
#86354
03/13/07 02:29 PM
03/13/07 02:29 PM
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So, each one of us is the ultimate authority in our lives. The only question is if we are willing to submit that authority to God's leading or not.
When one chooses to submit to God's authority, he is basically saying, "I exercise my authority over myself by willingly choosing to do whatever God tells me to do." A comment on this is the question of if God wants to tell us what to do, that is, as commonly understood. That is, is God like a drill sergeant who, when He says "jump," we say "how high?" God is certainly worthy of such a response, but is that what He wants? Jesus said: Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. (John 15:15) Ellen White wrote: God does not force the will or judgment of any. He takes no pleasure in a slavish obedience. He desires that the creatures of His hands shall love Him because He is worthy of love. He would have them obey Him because they have an intelligent appreciation of His wisdom, justice, and benevolence. And all who have a just conception of these qualities will love Him because they are drawn toward Him in admiration of His attributes. (GC 541) True obedience is the outworking of a principle within. It springs from the love of righteousness, the love of the law of God. The essence of all righteousness is loyalty to our Redeemer. This will lead us to do right because it is right ... (COL 97, 98) It seems to me that God wants obedience which is based on a conviction of His goodness and the rightness of His ways, as opposed to obedience motivated by fear, based on His authority. God certainly has the authority to order us to do whatever He pleases, and Satan accuses Him of running things this way, but God invites us to reason together with Him. He wants to teach us the ways of truth, so that our obedience becomes the working out of our own desire. We do what is right because we are convinced of ourselves that it is right. He teaches us to be like Christ, in our ability to discern truth, and to make decisions which are Christ-like (that is, like the decisions Christ would make). This is a process which involves our learning to discern truth, and learning to think.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Do you agree?
[Re: Tom]
#86355
03/13/07 02:41 PM
03/13/07 02:41 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I consider this a dangerous position for a Christian to take, and Ellen White warns against this.
“There are some that may think they are fully capable with their finite judgment to take the Word of God, and to state what are the words of inspiration, and what are not the words of inspiration. No one is saying the words aren't inspired. The Bible includes words from Satan. They are "inspired" because they are contained in Scripture. They are nevertheless Satanic. We're not supposed to believe them. We need to use discernment to know what is truth or not. A good example of this is the book of Job. It takes discernment to know what is truth in the book of Job.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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