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Did Christ have power?
#91816
09/11/07 07:30 PM
09/11/07 07:30 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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When Christ became a human being, did He retain the power He had as God, in the sense that He could have used it if He wanted to? Or was He as powerless as any other human being, with access to power only from God by faith?
For example, let's say that hypothetically Christ wanted to create stones to bread. Could He have done so by using His own power? Or is the only way He could have done so by asking God to do it for Him, just like us?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Christ have power?
[Re: Tom]
#91821
09/11/07 11:38 PM
09/11/07 11:38 PM
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Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself
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Re: Did Christ have power?
[Re: John Boskovic]
#91830
09/12/07 05:20 PM
09/12/07 05:20 PM
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Brazil
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Ellen White describes it this way:
"His [Stan's] first temptation to Christ was upon appetite. He had, upon this point, almost entire control of the world, and his temptations were so adapted to the circumstances and surroundings of Christ, that his temptations upon appetite were almost overpowering.
"Christ could have worked a miracle in his own behalf; but this would not have been in accordance with the plan of salvation. The many miracles in the life of Christ show his power to work miracles for the benefit of suffering humanity. By a miracle of mercy, he fed five thousand at once with five loaves and two small fishes. Therefore he had the power to work a miracle, and satisfy his own hunger. Satan flattered himself that he could lead Christ to doubt the words spoken from Heaven at his baptism. If he could tempt him to question his sonship, and doubt the truth of the word spoken by his Father, he would gain a great victory.
"He found Christ in the desolate wilderness without companions, without food, and in actual suffering. His surroundings were most melancholy and repulsive. Satan suggested to Christ that God would not leave his Son in this condition of want and suffering. He hoped to shake the confidence of Christ in his Father, who had permitted him to be brought into this condition of extreme suffering in the desert, where the feet of man had never trod. Satan hoped that he could insinuate doubts as to his Father's love, which would find a lodgment in the mind of Christ, and that, under the force of despondency and extreme hunger, he would exert his miraculous power in his own behalf, and take himself out of the hands of his Heavenly Father. This was indeed a temptation to Christ. But he cherished it not for a moment." {2Red 38.3-39.2}
If we don't believe that Christ had power to work miracles, we will have to believe that God would have answered a selfish prayer, that is, that God would work a selfish miracle. Besides, the idea that, by having the Father work a miracle in His behalf Christ would be taking himself out of the hands of the Father, does not make sense.
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Re: Did Christ have power?
[Re: Rosangela]
#91831
09/12/07 05:28 PM
09/12/07 05:28 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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It's interesting that you would mention that quote, as the following one came to my mind: Not without a struggle could Jesus listen in silence to the arch-deceiver. But the Son of God was not to prove His divinity to Satan, or to explain the reason of His humiliation. By conceding to the demands of the rebel, nothing for the good of man or the glory of God would be gained. Had Christ complied with the suggestion of the enemy, Satan would still have said, Show me a sign that I may believe you to be the Son of God. Evidence would have been worthless to break the power of rebellion in his heart. And Christ was not to exercise divine power for His own benefit. He had come to bear trial as we must do, leaving us an example of faith and submission. DA 120 This is of the same event. It brings out that Christ was being tempted to demonstrate He was divine, which seems to me implying that Christ would have had to use His own power to make the stone into bread, else how could He have been demonstrating His divinity?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Christ have power?
[Re: Tom]
#91844
09/13/07 08:30 PM
09/13/07 08:30 PM
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Brazil
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We have discussed something about this in the past, and Mark said something with which I agreed, and it was that Christ's power was the power of the Godhead, and He could have used it whenever He wished. Below is another passage speaking about this subject:
"There are many who fail to distinguish between the rashness of presumption and the intelligent confidence of faith. Satan thought that by his temptations he could delude the world's Redeemer, to make one bold move in manifesting his divine power, to create a sensation, and to surprise all by the wonderful display of the power of his Father in preserving him from injury. He suggested that Christ should appear in his real character, and by this masterpiece of power, establish his right to the confidence and faith of the people, that he was indeed the Saviour of the world. If Christ had been deceived by Satan's temptations, and had exercised his miraculous power to relieve himself from difficulty, he would have broken the contract made with his Father, to be a probationer in behalf of the race. {RH, April 1, 1875 par. 1}
"It was a difficult task for the Prince of Life to carry out the plan which he had undertaken for the salvation of man, in clothing his divinity with humanity. He had received honor in the heavenly courts, and was familiar with absolute power. It was as difficult for him to keep the level of humanity as it is for men to rise above the low level of their depraved natures, and be partakers of the divine nature. {RH, April 1, 1875 par. 2}
"Christ was put to the closest test, requiring the strength of all his faculties to resist the inclination when in danger, to use his power to deliver himself from peril, and triumph over the power of the prince of darkness. Satan showed his knowledge of the weak points of the human heart, and put forth his utmost power to take advantage of the weakness of the humanity which Christ had assumed in order to overcome his temptations on man's account." {RH, April 1, 1875 par. 3}
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Re: Did Christ have power?
[Re: Rosangela]
#91848
09/13/07 09:27 PM
09/13/07 09:27 PM
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OP
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I think the fact that Christ was a member of the Godhead makes some statements seem ambiguous. That is, when speaking of divine power, one can ask, was it Christ's divine power, or God's? From the perspective that Christ lived as a man must live, dependent upon the Father, it was God's power. However, given that Christ had that same power intrinsically, and there is no essential different to the power Christ had and the Father's power, some statements (I can't think of any right now) which speak of Christ's power may seem in contradiction with others which say that He laid aside this power. The way I resolved this possibly apparent contradiction was along the lines of what you say Mark wrote. That's a good quote. I don't remember this discussion. To me, that Christ had divine power was something I took for granted. Something Waggoner wrote came to mind: The flesh, moved upon by the enemy of all righteousness, would tend to sin, yet His Divine nature never for a moment harboured an evil desire nor did His Divine power for a moment waver. (Christ and His Righteousness)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Christ have power?
[Re: Tom]
#91850
09/14/07 04:32 AM
09/14/07 04:32 AM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Did Christ have power?
[Re: asygo]
#91855
09/14/07 01:48 PM
09/14/07 01:48 PM
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Brazil
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He is speaking about His unity with the Father, so what He is saying is that He can do nothing independently or separate from the Father. In all things He must, from the necessity of his nature, act in accordance with the nature and will of God.
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Re: Did Christ have power?
[Re: Rosangela]
#91857
09/14/07 02:02 PM
09/14/07 02:02 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Lawrence, Kansas
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I interpret it not in terms of ability, but in terms of choice. That is, in His role as Savior, and Example, He could of Himself do nothing, as that would not be in harmony with His mission, which was to show what God is like, as well as showing what a man could do, if he acted in accordance with the principles of God's law, which is to say, lived by faith. Neither of these goals would have been served by His "doing things on His own."
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Christ have power?
[Re: Tom]
#91912
09/19/07 03:02 PM
09/19/07 03:02 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Posts: 22,256
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The following insights indicate that Jesus, on occasions, exercised His divinity.
Luke 6:19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed [them] all. 8:46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
8T 202 While upon this earth, the Son of God was the Son of man; yet there were times when His divinity flashed forth. Thus it was when He said to the paralytic: "Be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee." Matthew 9:2. {8T 202.1}
"But there were certain of the scribes sitting there," who "began to reason," not openly, "but in their hearts, "saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" Mark 2:6; Luke 5:21. {8T 202.2}
UL 313 While upon this earth, the Son of God was the Son of man; yet there are times when His divinity flashed forth in the manifestation of superior power. {UL 313.2}
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