Christmas is coming once again, therefore, I have some thoughts and questions to throw out at you.

If we had lived prior to the 1st coming of Jesus Christ as a baby in Bethlehem, could we have known in advance the hour of His 1st coming?

Should they have known the day and the hour, or at least the exact year of His birth?

They should have known in advance when the final week of the 70 weeks prophecy began.

They should have known in advance where He was to have been born.

They should have known in advance when His earthly ministry began.

They should have known in advance when He was crucified.

They should have at least known in advance when the 70 week prophecy would end. Stephen was stoned to death signifying the end of the 70 week prophecy.

Can we know even now the exact year of His birth let alone the day and the hour?

Obviously, if we knew the day and the hour, we would know the actual birthday of Jesus Christ which obviously isn't December 25th.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

Simeon and Anna seemed to recognize the time. Both were "peculiar people" but entirely devoted.

Martin Luther's opinion was that Simeon gained this knowlege through the aid of the Holy Spirit as he studied Scripture.

------------------
The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.

You are definitely correct about the Holy Spirit revealing it to Simeon as shown below:

quote:

---

Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luke 2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Luke 2:28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Luke 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Luke 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
Luke 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Luke 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
Luke 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

---

Sounded like a prophetic utterance to me.

quote:

---

Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luke 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luke 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

---

Anna was obviously a prophetess who was also told about the Christ child by the Holy Spirit.

The question is whether their knowledge was solely based on their study of the Scriptures, or whether they were given a special revelation of the birth of the Christ child after the fact.

Then comes the story of the Kings of the East who, it seems, learned about the birth of the Christ child after the fact as they followed the star from the time it appeared from the time of His birth to the time they arrive at the house they, He and Mary and Joseph, were living in a couple of years later. How did they know about the meaning behind this star?

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

The prophecy of Balaam was one clue the Jews should have been looking for:

Numbers 24:17

"I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth.

As far as I know-the Magi were the only ones who had studied this prophecy and realized the star was a physical portent of the Messiah's birth!

Matthew 2

After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."

When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him.

When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Christ was to be born.

"In Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet has written:
"`But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.'"

Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared.

Notice what happened next.

quote:

---

Matthew 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

---

By killing all of the male children 2 years and under, Herod wasn't taking any chances on what year Christ was born, however, Mary and Joseph had already left Bethlehem before Herod's soldiers even got there.

An interesting assumption is that Herod had inquired of the Magi as to when they first saw the star.

Does that mean then that the exact year in which Christ was born was established? The answer to that would seem to be yes, however, after the event had already happened.

The question still remains whether the exact year of Christ's birth was known, or could have been known, before it happened.

The only people who knew in advance was obviously Mary and Joseph, and possibly also Elizabeth and Zacharias.

The shepherds watching their sheep by night obviously knew exactly when Christ was literally born.

This also reminds me of the following text:

quote:

---

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Luke 2:2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
Luke 2:3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
Luke 2:4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David
Luke 2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
Luke 2:6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

---

Does either Roman or Jewish history give the date on which this took place? That would be interesting wouldn't it, especially when Christ's birthday today is celebrated on December 25th.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

Seems to me the prophecies were more concerned about when Jesus began His publicly ministry in AD 27 - the year He was baptized and anointed. It might be that God didn't want us to know the exact day Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Look at what we have done with the day we call His birthday! Perhaps God wanted to spare us all such heartache.

For some Christmas is a great time of year. For others it is a terrible test of emotional survival. As an orphan Christmas conjures up all kinds of sad memories. Not to mention what it's like this side of a divorce. It's not easy spending Christmas without my wife and children.

I'm not a kill-joy. I love life and living. But it's very difficult to get through Christmas without alot of tears and tremendous sorrow. I must not be alone. More people commit suicide around Christsmas than any other time of the year.

What if we hadn't assigned a day to remember the birth of Jesus? What if we hadn't perverted that day through selfish giving and getting? What if more people were aware of needs of others during Christmas? What if Christmas were a day set aside for remembering the orphans, the homeless, the single people and/or parents, and the divorced? What if....

Jesus was 33 1/2 yrs old at His death. Only the shepards saw the newborn. The Magi saw the young child in a rented house .

Passover / Calvery AD 31 was in the spring. 33 1/2 yrs earlier was in the fall, not the winter. Beyond that no data is given.

The solution, get to Heaven & ask Him about His human birthday or look it up in the records. Sing Happy Birthday then, prepare to work for souls now & anchor abiding in Him till the Second Coming. After that the birthday of Jesus will be both history & public knowledge.

------------------
Edward F Sutton

About the Jew's knowledge of the 70 Weeks prophecy - I've read that some of those Dead Sea Scrolls identify the period with Jubilee periods - the Essenes who left the scrolls apparently had things worked out pretty well. I guess we can all know things mentally - but procrastinate about life changes!

I think Mike is right....we would have made a real mess out of it; if we knew the exact date & time of Christ's first coming.

DA.043.002
"The angels had wondered at the glorious plan of redemption. They watched to see how the people of God would receive His Son, clothed in the garb of humanity. Angels came to the land of the chosen people. Other nations were dealing in fables and worshiping false gods. To the land where the glory of God had been revealed, and the light of prophecy had shone, the angels came. They came unseen to Jerusalem, to the appointed expositors of the Sacred Oracles, and the ministers of God's house.

Already to Zacharias the priest, as he ministered before the altar, the nearness of Christ's coming had been announced. Already the forerunner was born, his mission attested by miracle and prophecy.

The tidings of his birth and the wonderful significance of his mission had been spread abroad. Yet Jerusalem was not preparing to welcome her Redeemer."

This, and other passages seem to suggest that the time was known by some in the past; but God, in His wisdom, has seen fit to obscure it from us.

------------------
"...you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

DavidTBattler

[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited November 17, 2001).]

Did they celebrate birthdays back then as we do today?

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl