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Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6797
11/27/03 10:02 AM
11/27/03 10:02 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Follow up question: Who besides the authors of the bible and Ellen would you consider as contributors to the Spirit of Prophecy. I am quite sure the amounth of authors that would generaly be regarded as 100% flawless can be easily counted.

/Thomas

Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6798
11/27/03 12:50 PM
11/27/03 12:50 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
quote:
Originally posted by R.A.:
All work by Augustine would need to be compared to our only standard the Bible. Great care must be taken for at times the path of truth and the path of error lie close together. If error is found in Augustine's work then it can be compared to fruit from the poison tree. Does this mean that all of his enormous collection of theological writings are untrue? Not at all but once error is found it then becomes a matter of searching for truth from a tainted source

Ehm, another comment on this, according to Jesus, if the fruit of augustines work is bad, we should not try to search for good fruits in among it. Only a good tree bears good fruit and cannot bear bad fruit and the other way around for a bad tree. So either its all good or all bad in its fruit. A bad tree as can be seen in the quote belove should be burned...

/Thomas

quote:
Matt 7 A Tree and Its Fruit

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6799
11/27/03 02:09 PM
11/27/03 02:09 PM
R
R.A.  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21
Florida
You are 100% correct.

Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6800
11/27/03 03:02 PM
11/27/03 03:02 PM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
We do need to be careful, though, to take into account that a lot of truth was lost over the ages between Christ's time and now. While I'm not saying that Augustine spoke according "to the law and to the testimony" (he was very decidedly Catholic after all), there are others who didn't have the light we have, who did the best they could under the circumstances, but who still had unbiblical doctrine. Martin Luther was a Sundaykeeper, because he didn't know any better, but he was used mightily of God. Even Ellen White was a Sundaykeeper in her early years.

Revelation is progressive, and the human race was plunged into terrible darkness for a long time. God had to bring us back gradually.

But getting back to the question of what makes up the spirit of prophecy (generic term), I'd say it's the Bible and the writings of EGW. While there have been a few others who might have exhibited the true gift of prophecy (the Eskimo prophet comes to mind), they didn't put a body of work into writing for us to use like the Bible writers and Ellen White did.

Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6801
11/28/03 04:30 AM
11/28/03 04:30 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Satan quoted scripture to Jesus. So not everything a false prophet says is all wrong. We must learn to discern both good and evil. Sister White was able to glean good from authors whose books contained a mixture of good and bad.

GC 587.1
"We may disguise poison by mingling it with wholesome food, but we do not change its nature. On the contrary, it is rendered more dangerous, as it is more likely to be taken unawares. It is one of Satan's devices to combine with falsehood just enough truth to give it plausibility."

Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6802
11/27/03 05:48 PM
11/27/03 05:48 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
Satan quoted scripture to Jesus. So not everything a false prophet says is all wrong. We must learn to discern both good and evil. Sister White was able to glean good from authors whose books contained a mixture of good and bad.

Mike: While it is true that satan quoted scripture, he drew deceptive conclutions from the texts and thus made what once was good wrong.

John: If Martin Luther was excluded from being part of the Spirit of Prophecy becourse he didnt have all the truth, then we are imediately implying that Ellen had it all and that there is nothing more for her to learn about Gods truth in earth recreated.
Also, I think it would be safe to say that all the bible authors didnt have all the truth, and they are still in the bible. For instance Daniel and John, where John partly builds on the foundation of Daniel. So it would appear that John had more truth than Daniel about end times, and none of them wrote as detaljed as Ellen did. So who had all the truth that got them the ticket into acceptance as part of Spirit of Prophecy?

Is the fact that someone is catholic sufficient reason to say that they bear bad fruit? If im not compleately wrong, augustine lived before or at the time of the split of the church in east and west, was there a catholic church before that?

/Thomas

Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6803
11/27/03 06:28 PM
11/27/03 06:28 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Sister White was not shown all truth, nor did she grasp all truth. But all that she was shown is all true. She never misapplied the truth she was shown or understood. Augustine and Luther on the other hand often misunderstood and misapplied the truth. That is not to say the truth they misunderstood and misapplied was wrong. But rather the way they understood and applied it was sometimes wrong. Not so with Sister White. Was she personally infallible?. Not at all. "All have sinned." But her inspired writings reflect the infallible truths of God.

Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6804
11/27/03 09:05 PM
11/27/03 09:05 PM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Thomas,

The crucial, vital difference in what we're talking about here comes down to whether a person has the genuine gift of being a prophet of God, or not. All the Bible writers had this, all were directly inspired by the Holy Spirit in a special way. They were His direct mouthpieces.

People like Wycliffe, Huss, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Tyndale, John Wesley, etc. while used mightily by God, didn't have this type of inspiration. There were flaws in their writings, in their doctrines. Some of the early SDA pioneers had flaws in their thinking as well.

Catholic doctrine is by definition flawed. There are Catholics who will be saved, who are living up to all the light they have the best they know how. But the system itself is in opposition to God, with its earthly system of priests, their continual supposed offering up of Christ's sacrifice through the eucharist, "changing times and laws", etc. etc. etc.

Ellen White did have direct inspiration from God. While she didn't possess "all truth" (no limited human does), what she wrote agrees totally with "the law and the testimony", as Mike said.

That's why the Bible, and her writings, are on a higher level than anything else. With the Bible being highest of all, certainly, and her writings being a step down from that, but still above anything else written by mankind. They're directly inspired by God, in the highest sense. Nothing else on earth can compare.

Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6805
11/28/03 01:17 AM
11/28/03 01:17 AM
R
R.A.  Offline
Posting New Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21
Florida
quote
___________________________
Originally posted by Thomas

Who besides the authors of the Bible and Ellen would you consider as contributors to the Spirit of Prophecy

In my limited experience you have rightly named the two sources that have been contributors to the body of work known as the Spirit of Prophecy, being 100% correct in their prophesies.

Re: Spirit of Prophesy #6806
11/29/03 07:07 AM
11/29/03 07:07 AM
W
whitlie  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 62
Portland Ore. USA
Vastergotland,

you are partially incorrect, concerning the implication of Mrs. White having all the light,then.
She makes it abundantly clear that new light is to come after her day. See Counsels to Writers and Editors 33-52. Further she went so far as to say another messenger would come after her.

that there was to be special light for God's people as they neared the closing scenes of this earth's history. Another angel was to come from heaven with a message and the whole earth was to be lightened with his glory. It would be impossible for us to state just how this additional light would come. It might come in a very unexpected manner, in a way that would not agree with the ideas that many have conceived. It is not at all unlikely, or contrary to the ways and works of God to send light to His people in unexpected ways. E G White Materials . vol.1 page 239.

This is a most difficult statement for Seventh-day Adventist to accept.

The Spirit of Prophecy is given to those who are called to add to past Inpiration. This ofcourse when measured with

Peter II 1:18 we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.
Peter II 1:19 And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
Peter II 1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,
Peter II 1:21 because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

God is particular to whom he gives his Spirit in these matters.

Blessings Whitlie

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