It would be better if your revelation was not conflicted with scripture and with other prophets whose writings have been shown to be in harmony with scripture.

In this particular case - the beast is referenced as early as Rev 13 and shown to be the Papacy (false religion in various forms since the time of Babylon actually). So this is an "organization" not an individual person.

By the same token the "false prophet" is one who is supposed to be true -- organizations coming from within Christianity - but who is found to be false.

In scripture we have no reference to any of the four angels of Rev 7 "being evil" - so here your revelation contradicts a Bible prophet.

In scripture we have no reference to the "beast coming out of the bottomless pit" -- so again - your revelation is not passing the test of Acts 17:11 "They studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by Paul were so".

in Christ,

Bob

Getting back to the subject of the thread...



The wicked are "tormented with fire and brimstone" Rev 14:10 in the 2nd death lake of fire (fiery hell as God calls it in Matt 10:28).

AND they are "tormented IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb and of His Holy Angels" as we see in Rev 14:10.

Those who KNEW their masters will and yet did deeds sending them to the 2nd death (they did not accept the Gospel AND PERSEVERE in it) receive MANY stripes of torment and suffering before being "destroyed BOTH body AND soul" and the ones who did not know as much "receive FEW" Luke 12:47-49

This only works if REAL suffering and torment are involve AND if it is not "infinite" for all.

in Christ,

Bob

hence the need to notice the fire in the "lake of fire" in Rev 20 and the "tormented in fire and brimstone" of Rev 14:10.

in Christ,

Bob

In Rev 12 you see that Satan is cast down to earth after the resurrection of Christ.

In Luk 10:18 as a result of Christ's ministry - Satan falls like lightning.

That is as close as you get for a Bible text on his being restricted from heavenly realms after the cross.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob's
You mean like the two different lakes of fires?

Bob's
Regardless of Revelation 13:18, Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
So who's conflicting with scriptures?


Bob's
Bob 3:12, you're conflicting with Rev 13:18. The beast, the false prophet, were both men. The seven heads/kings of Rome, Flavius the 8th(beast), and Nerva the 11th(false prophet_.

Bob's
If they weren't evil, why were they bound and released at the same time as the beast? Further more, eventhough I can't recall the verse, the angels that laid with women before the flood, were reserved(bound) for the day of judgement, no.

Bob's
Rev 17:8, this seems to be a routine/game with these so-called christian sites. When one can't handle the truth, another appears to continue the run around with one mind.

When the Pharisees and the Sadducees questioned Christ about washing his hands before eating, I quote:

Well ... I agree with all the Fundamentals ... but I think it is sad if one can't disagree here. Apparently ... only singing to the choir that is allowed?

And in who's opinion that it goes against the Fundamentals ... counts? At that rate ... you would get many who THINK that others go against the Fundamentals.

Precepts,

To say the number of the beast is the number of a man does not make the beast a man, it makes the numbers the same.

Beasts, in prophecy, represent kingdoms. True, a man is usually the leader of a kingdom. However, the kingdom is not a man. It is an organization, a government, or a nation of people.

Put another way, to have the number OF a man does mean being equal TO a man.

The "number of a man" is significant. What is the number of man? I find it relevant to note that six days were given in which man could work; the seventh was the Lord's day. Six commandments were given for man's interrelations. The sixth one forbids murder of humankind. (I think we were initially created with six fingers on each hand, but I will not make a big issue of this here. Suffice it to say if this were the case, and "polydactyly" is a dominant gene, it would easily have been the number most memorable for us.)

I also find, as a biologist, that we have SIX senses: sight, hearing, taste, smell, touch, and balance. Why biologists have traditionally classified the sense of balance with hearing makes no sense, for one does not "hear" balance. That they are separate senses is easily proven by asking a deaf person if he/she senses balance. Therefore, there are six natural avenues to a man's soul; the seventh is the seat of conscience and belongs to God (the seventh "sense").

The number six is presented frequently throughout the Bible as being our number.

On the contrary, the numbers three or four represent God. Added, they make seven. Multiplied, they are twelve. Each of these are God's "perfect" numbers. Four commandments were given to define our relationship to God. Four Gospels were written about Jesus' life. Four pillars stood at the front of God's tabernacle, creating three entrances. There are three persons in the Godhead. Jesus was three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The unusual number 666, which we hold is the "mark of the beast," is unique. It is the number of man, given three times, where three is God's number. So the number itself connects the two symbols of God and man. When a man tries to take the place of God, however, he still has man's number. Notice that the number is NOT 333333. Three is God's number. The only digits you see in 666 are all man's number. A man can think to be God, but cannot become God.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

In response to your post.

Respectfully questioning any of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA Church in an acceptable manner, rather than just posting against them in a disrespectful manner, is permissible.

Dogmatic posts against any of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA Church isn't appropriate, isn't acceptable.

I have edited my Admin Hat post accordingly.

In Rev 13 it is "the number of his name" and the beast is an organiation composed of all component parts of the 4-beast sequence we see in Dan 7 (see all 4 beasts of Dan 7 being referenced in Rev 13:1-2). This is indeed an organization not a single person.




How so?




1. There is no text in all of scripture that says that "angels laid with women"
2. There is Matt 22 where Christ tells us that Agnels were not created with the ability even to have family relations with each other - let alone with other species!
3. The text you might be straining this from is in Gen 6:1-3 where we are told that the "sons of God went into the daughters of men" referring to the descendants of Abel vs the descendants of Cain. (As even R.C Sproul points out). There are numerous texts about the saints being called "the sons of God" and the gospel promise of accepting Christ that "you may be called the sons of God".
4. There is nothing whatever showing any of the 4 angels in Rev 7 to be evil.
5. There is no text at all showing that the winds of strife in Rev 7 are released at the same time that the beast came out of the sea in Rev 13 either during the dark ages or when the deadly wound was healed.





It works better if you show what part of the text you think is making your point rather than making accusations against this entire web site.

Here is the actual text - in Rev 17.

8 "" The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.

In Rev 13 the beast that gives the "number of his name" comes up out of the sea. In Rev 17 the beast only comes out of the abyss after having come up out of the sea and then suffering his deadly wound.



It is unclear to me how this related to the beast or what point you are trying to make with Matt 15.

Since this thread is about the reality of the Lake of Fire -- I don't see how Matt 15 connects your point with the topic at hand.

in Christ,

Bob