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4 registered members (Karen Y, Daryl, dedication, 1 invisible),
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Re: Are we just waiting?
#10315
09/17/03 03:38 AM
09/17/03 03:38 AM
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"That you are prepared to publicly demonstrate your complete ignorance of the law of large numbers astounds me."
I'm not sure when or where the insulting began, and if I was responsible I apologize. It was my understanding that we were Christian brothers discussing the merits of various ideas. I do attempt to keep my comments focused on the arguement at hand, and not the character or IQ of those who participate in the discussion.
When referencing Matt. 24 I was indicating where my assumptions originated from, not discussing the text itself. It seems to me that as Christians we are loosing ground in trying to get the gospel to the whole world; people are being born faster than we can tell them about Christ. (I have no statistics to prove this, it is just how things seem to me to be going.) The church itself is fractured, political, and corrupt. I do not know of a group of people who perfectly reflect the image of Christ.
So I think the question of whether or not we can affect the timing of Christ's return is still unanswered. I am still of the opinion that we can not.
I would also like it to be demonstrated that the "law of large numbers" legitimately applies to theology and/or salvation.
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Re: Are we just waiting?
#10316
09/17/03 12:16 PM
09/17/03 12:16 PM
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As far as any natural law goes, the law of gravity, the law of numbers, the law of healing, the law of light, the law of space and time, etc., can be and will be overridden by God, for nothing is impossible for God except for those things that God has made impossible for Him to do, such as it is impossible for God to lie. quote:
To my understanding, in SDA theology two conditions must hold for Christ to return: 1) the gospel must be preached in all the world and 2) there must be a people who perfectly reflect Christ's character. IMNSHO, I can find no Scriptural support for either.
As far as when the end will come, there is Scripture to back that up, however, Scripture also says that we do not know the time or the hour of His appearing, but the Father does, and the suspect that the Son also now knows.
As far as point #1 above goes, here is the quoted Scripture reference:
quote:
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
As far as point #2 goes, there must be a Scriptural reference somewhere that backs up this thought. I do think that there is somewhere in the writings of Ellen White. Does anybody know where either or both may be found?
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Re: Are we just waiting?
#10317
09/17/03 12:40 PM
09/17/03 12:40 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
As far as any natural law goes, the law of gravity, the law of numbers, the law of healing, the law of light, the law of space and time, etc., can be and will be overridden by God, for nothing is impossible for God except for those things that God has made impossible for Him to do, such as it is impossible for God to lie.
Darryl, who do you think is the author of these natural laws? I'm sorry, but God does not violate His laws; any of them. Don't confuse human understanding of these laws with the laws themselves. By the same token don't assume that whatever EGW says about God is what God believes about God. We all see through a glass darkly. If you believe the Bible you must also believe that.
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Re: Are we just waiting?
#10318
09/17/03 01:04 PM
09/17/03 01:04 PM
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When Christ ascended into heaven, didn't He personally violate the natural law of gravity?
When Christ walked on the water, and Peter did likewise, wasn't a natural law violated? Can you walk on water and thus also violate this natural law? No, you can't, however, both He and Peter did.
When the fire sent by God from heaven burned up the water, didn't God violate one of His own natural laws?
and as far as Ellen White goes, as God's messenger, I accept what she says was told to her by God, as long as it doesn't go contrary to what the Scriptures say, and adding more detail doesn't go contrary to the Bible.
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Re: Are we just waiting?
#10319
09/17/03 02:28 PM
09/17/03 02:28 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
When Christ ascended into heaven, didn't He personally violate the natural law of gravity?
You must also believe that when NASA sends astronauts into space they also violate the law of gravity. The law of gravity is never violated. There is another law that a stronger force overrides a weaker force.
quote:
When Christ walked on the water, and Peter did likewise, wasn't a natural law violated?
Again, ships do that every day. You should not mistake a mastery of the laws of nature with a violation of the laws of nature.
quote:
and as far as Ellen White goes, as God's messenger, I accept what she says was told to her by God, as long as it doesn't go contrary to what the Scriptures say, and adding more detail doesn't go contrary to the Bible.
But what she says does go contrary to what the Bible says for it leads to a different conclusion from the one Paul reached and what is evident from the rest of the story. Moses was also God's messenger, I would suggest.
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