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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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Re: 4th Quarter 2012 - Growing in Christ
[Re: APL]
#146568
11/03/12 11:57 PM
11/03/12 11:57 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Is the penalty intrinsic or imposed? We need to know the answer to this question. If the penalty is imposed, then God really is a tyrant. If the penalty is imposed, then why not impose it at the beginning? But the penalty is not imposed. It is intrinsic. Read Patriarchs and Prophets then chapter, "Why Was Sin Permitted"? Is it clear that if the natural consequences of sin were allowed to proceed, then the on looking universe would not have understood. The would have believed Satan's charges. Read this chapter! So, natural consequences were not allowed to proceed, right? - for the reasons of fully understanding the great controversy, indeed. There are many issues behind your point, here, of course. God is just and also merciful, and we see generations of mercy while probation lasts with only a small sampling of justice, eg. Sodom..., and Babylonian captivity. Sin is in principle separation from the life giver; grace in principle and practice reconciles us with the law giver. God delays natural consequences for reasons of ending the great controversy for all eternity, since he is love. Really, we shouldn't question his motives, for he is the potter and we are the clay.
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Re: 4th Quarter 2012 - Growing in Christ
[Re: Colin]
#146591
11/04/12 08:20 PM
11/04/12 08:20 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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So, natural consequences were not allowed to proceed, right? - for the reasons of fully understanding the great controversy, indeed.
There are many issues behind your point, here, of course. God is just and also merciful, and we see generations of mercy while probation lasts with only a small sampling of justice, eg. Sodom..., and Babylonian captivity.
Sin is in principle separation from the life giver; grace in principle and practice reconciles us with the law giver. God delays natural consequences for reasons of ending the great controversy for all eternity, since he is love.
Really, we shouldn't question his motives, for he is the potter and we are the clay. Indeed, natural consequences were withheld. We do have a glimpse of what happens with God withdraws His had of protection in Sodom and the Babylonian captivity. The destruction of Jerusalem is a prime example of what happens when God withdraws. When I read what you have written, it seems to me that the end result of sin is not a natural consequence, but an imposed penalty. Am I reading you right or wrong? As to questioning God, do you really think we are not to understand His motives? Really? God said, "come let us reason together" Isaiah 1:18. And this is eternal life, "that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Jeremiah 9:23-24 Thus said the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24 But let him that glories glory in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD which exercise loving kindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, said the LORD. The Lord asks us, and invites us to question and understand His motives.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: 4th Quarter 2012 - Growing in Christ
[Re: APL]
#147466
11/25/12 02:50 PM
11/25/12 02:50 PM
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The following quote is from Friday, November 23rd in our Lesson Study Material:“If a man is sanguine of his own powers and seeks to exercise dominion over his brethren, feeling that he is invested with authority to make his will the ruling power, the best and only safe course is to remove him, lest great harm be done, and he lose his own soul, and imperil the souls of others. . . . This disposition to lord it over God’s heritage will cause a reaction unless these men change their course. . . . A man’s position does not make him one jot or tittle greater in the sight of God; it is character alone that God values.” - Ellen G. White, Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, p. 362. This is a stern warning against any one person exercising dominion over his church members, be it local churches, local conferences, unions, divisions, etc. EGW goes so far to say that such a person, be it a pastor or a local elder, etc., should be removed.
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Re: 4th Quarter 2012 - Growing in Christ
[Re: Mountain Man]
#147477
11/25/12 08:32 PM
11/25/12 08:32 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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". . . it is character alone that God values.” Amen! I will bring this out in my next sermon where I use Philippians 2 with special emphasis on verse 5, "Let this mind be in you, which also was in Christ Jesus." "Mind" froneite - or mindset which shapes your thoughts and actions. Your character should be the one of Jesus Christ, the only thing that God values about you, not your own, but the mind of Jesus Christ.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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