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“Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
#102123
08/30/08 02:51 AM
08/30/08 02:51 AM
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OP
Charter Member Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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I wish I had checked our online bulletin on Thursday so I could have posted sooner. Pastor Doug Batchelor sermon for Sabbath 8-30 is called “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace”. If you are home you can watch it live at Sacramento SDA LIve Sermon for Sabbath. We are Pacific time zone so it will be a little after 11:00.
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Avalee]
#102179
08/31/08 07:01 AM
08/31/08 07:01 AM
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OP
Charter Member Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Amazing Facts will soon have this sermon online but until then I have put the audio of it online at: Gay Marriage: A State Of Dis-Grace
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Avalee]
#102185
08/31/08 01:04 PM
08/31/08 01:04 PM
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Avalee for alerting us of this most interesting message, which I tried to watch live, but kept being cut off, therefore, I will be downloading it.
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Daryl]
#102218
09/01/08 04:55 PM
09/01/08 04:55 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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I believe the Bible disallows and condemns gay and lesbian relations. However, what business does secular government have in disallowing it? It's discrimination.
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102230
09/01/08 06:45 PM
09/01/08 06:45 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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I think I'm with MM on this one. It is against God's law, but that is for God's people to deal with. Let Caesar take care of his own business.
Now, if the govt can come up with a secular reason for disallowing it, then there's no problem. But morality is beyond its jurisdiction. The longer we stay true to that concept, the longer it will be before they tell us how to worship.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102234
09/01/08 08:20 PM
09/01/08 08:20 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014
Veteran Member
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
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I believe the Bible disallows and condemns gay and lesbian relations. However, what business does secular government have in disallowing it? It's discrimination. Mike, One might also ask what business government has endorsing and supporting gay marriage. Certainly such immorality will bring God's judgment upon cities, and upon nations as well. It's a sign of the end times, just as it brought disaster upon Sodom & Gomorrah. Arnold's right, it's a moral issue. But I fear modern Israel is also implicated. Biblically, homosexuality is an abomination because it's outside of God's established order. (i.e. - He does not condone it by giving positive examples in the Word, but rather condemns it in various passages of Scripture, such as Romans chapter 1). Being out of order is rebellion. For this reason, churches which adopt a policy to place women in positions of leadership also enter into confusion, although approved as progressive by the world. If God's people had been setting an example of order and righteousness for the world (these last hundred years or more), their influence in society would have turned the tide against immorality as the status quo. Our churches would not be circulating petitions for government to ban gay marriage. Adventists should instead repent that our own loose moral standards (of many stripes) have allowed this movement to come in like a flood. God placed us here to shed light on moral issues for the purpose of elevating the world by showing forth Christ. Seeking the powerful arm of the state to fulfill our mission pays homage to the methods of the Vatican.
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: gordonb1]
#102241
09/01/08 11:22 PM
09/01/08 11:22 PM
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I say we should be concerned about laws that go against God's own laws.
Should we not be concerned about the secular law makers that will one day make it legal to remove a certain group of people who will be accused of being the cause of the state of things such as in the "death decree"?
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Daryl]
#102249
09/02/08 01:51 AM
09/02/08 01:51 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Sister White advocated uniting with other lobbying organizations in opposing laws which protected harmful health practices. I suppose one could include lobbying against gay marriages.
NOTE: IN THE EARLY SUMMER OF 1881 AT THE DES MOINES, IOWA, CAMP MEETING, A RESOLUTION WAS PLACED BEFORE THE DELEGATES WHICH READ: {Te 255.3}
"RESOLVED, THAT WE EXPRESS OUR DEEP INTEREST IN THE TEMPERANCE MOVEMENT NOW GOING FORWARD IN THIS STATE; AND THAT WE INSTRUCT ALL OUR MINISTERS TO USE THEIR INFLUENCE AMONG OUR CHURCHES AND WITH THE PEOPLE AT LARGE TO INDUCE THEM TO PUT FORTH EVERY CONSISTENT EFFORT, BY PERSONAL LABOR, AND AT THE BALLOT BOX, IN FAVOR OF THE PROHIBITORY AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION, WHICH THE FRIENDS OF TEMPERANCE ARE SEEKING TO SECURE."--REVIEW AND HERALD, JULY 5, 1881. {Te 255.4}
BUT SOME OBJECTED TO THE CLAUSE WHICH CALLED FOR ACTION AT "THE BALLOT BOX," AND URGED ITS DELETION. MRS. WHITE, WHO WAS ATTENDING THIS CAMP MEETING, HAD RETIRED, BUT SHE WAS SUMMONED TO GIVE HER COUNSEL. {Te 255.5}
WRITING OF IT AT THE TIME SHE SAYS: "I dressed and found I was to speak to the point of whether our people should vote for prohibition. I told them 'Yes,' and spoke twenty minutes."--Letter 6, 1881. {Te 255.6} "
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102565
09/13/08 02:13 AM
09/13/08 02:13 AM
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OP
Charter Member Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Amazing Facts has done a quick job on getting this online. You can download the video. Gay Marriage
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Avalee]
#103995
10/25/08 04:06 AM
10/25/08 04:06 AM
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OP
Charter Member Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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I am sure most of you have already seen this website by now: Adventists forProposition 8
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Avalee]
#104018
10/25/08 08:23 PM
10/25/08 08:23 PM
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OP
Charter Member Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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I have just uploaded the first of two parts of a talk given by Allan J. Reinach, Esq. at Sacramento Central SDA Church in the afternoon of the same Sabbath that Pastor Batchelor had the above sermon on this topic. It was called, "The Right To Destroy Marriage? They put them on 2 CD's and the first one just stops in the middle of a sentence it seems and you have to start part 2. (The 2nd CD was BLANK - I will have to wait until I get back to church to get another copy - sorry) The Right To Destroy Marriage?
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Avalee]
#104033
10/26/08 03:31 PM
10/26/08 03:31 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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We're becoming more and more like Sodom, which may mean Jesus' coming is close at hand. I hope so.
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: asygo]
#104107
11/01/08 06:24 AM
11/01/08 06:24 AM
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Full Member
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 114
MO
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Now, if the govt can come up with a secular reason for disallowing it, then there's no problem. But morality is beyond its jurisdiction. The longer we stay true to that concept, the longer it will be before they tell us how to worship.
Moral authority and religious authority are two separate things. As noted above EGW did advocate voting along moral lines on temperance issues, she worked against slavery (a moral issue) etc. Yet she stood for religious freedom. The government DOES have a moral role according to the Scriptures (see below), but it does not have a role in regulating religion. Therefore it is not necessary for Adventists to avoid resisting moral evils in order to fight for religious freedom. As to a moral role for the government Paul writes to the Romans: Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, Rom 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Rom 13:5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. Rom 13:6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Rom 13:7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
The government is God's agent to punish the wrongdoer. This is by definition a moral role. Few people would deny the government a moral role when it comes to punishing theft, murder etc.
Last edited by tall73; 11/01/08 06:31 AM.
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Mountain Man]
#104109
11/01/08 11:09 AM
11/01/08 11:09 AM
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Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Florida, USA
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We're becoming more and more like Sodom, which may mean Jesus' coming is close at hand. I hope so. We are also voting on a marriage Amendment here in Florida but since its most likely going to pass you dont hear anything from the media. Only in California where with the Hollywood movie industry and San Fransisco demographics, they have a chance to defeat it do they focus their media lights so they can promote this view if the marriage Amendment goes down.
Last edited by Richard; 11/01/08 11:10 AM.
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: Mountain Man]
#104178
11/04/08 03:46 AM
11/04/08 03:46 AM
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SDA Active Member 2024
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
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We're becoming more and more like Sodom, ... Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: “Gay Marriage: A State of Dis-Grace” Sermon
[Re: teresaq]
#104192
11/04/08 05:27 PM
11/04/08 05:27 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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