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Sins of ignorance
#102423
09/08/08 12:48 AM
09/08/08 12:48 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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It has been asserted that "Sins of ignorance can only apply to the first half of the law." (MM)
I'm starting a topic on this to see if anyone is interested in discussing this. I'm interested in seeing MM present an argument that this is the case. Perhaps the easiest way to show this is not the case is to provide a sin of ignorance which violates one of the last six commandments.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Tom]
#102479
09/10/08 01:02 PM
09/10/08 01:02 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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MM, how would you define a sin of ignorance?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Tom]
#102533
09/12/08 05:42 PM
09/12/08 05:42 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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A sin of ignorance means doing something you have no idea is wrong. Nothing in nature hints at it being wrong. Apart from the Bible nobody would be able to point to it as wrong. This applies only to the first four commandments of God's law.
Nothing in nature teaches that it is wrong to have more than one god, that it is wrong to make icons representing god, that it is wrong to take god's name in vain, or that it is wrong to break the Sabbath.
True, violating these commandments, even ignorantly, makes people feel empty and miserable, but they are incapable of identifying the cause of their emptiness and misery. It requires Bible study and prayer to make the connection.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102547
09/13/08 12:25 AM
09/13/08 12:25 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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What in nature hints at lying, for instance, being wrong? Especially if you do it for a good purpose?
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Rosangela]
#102562
09/13/08 01:48 AM
09/13/08 01:48 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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A sin of ignorance means doing something you have no idea is wrong. Nothing in nature hints at it being wrong. Apart from the Bible nobody would be able to point to it as wrong. This applies only to the first four commandments of God's law.
Why would you think this? 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.
3 There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. (Ps. 19) 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him(Romans 1:20, 21)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Rosangela]
#102583
09/13/08 03:37 PM
09/13/08 03:37 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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What in nature hints at lying, for instance, being wrong? Especially if you do it for a good purpose? The fact people naturally feel wrong about lying is evidence they were born with the law written upon every nerve and function of their being from birth.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102584
09/13/08 03:58 PM
09/13/08 03:58 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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MM: A sin of ignorance means doing something you have no idea is wrong. Nothing in nature hints at it being wrong. Apart from the Bible nobody would be able to point to it as wrong. This applies only to the first four commandments of God's law.
TE: Why would you think this? Nothing in the natural world reveals or reiterates the first four commandments. The following passages make it clear that humans misinterpret nature and form erroneous conclusions about God. It is impossible to read nature aright without an intelligent, intimate knowledge of God's word, the Holy Bible. Though all these evidences [in nature] have been given, the enemy of good blinded the minds of men, so that they looked upon God with fear; they thought of Him as severe and unforgiving. Satan led men to conceive of God as a being whose chief attribute is stern justice,--one who is a severe judge, a harsh, exacting creditor. {SC 10.3} Yet these revelations [in nature] are partial and imperfect. And in our fallen state, with weakened powers and restricted vision, we are incapable of interpreting aright. We need the fuller revelation of Himself that God has given in His written word. {Ed 16.3} The deepest students of science are constrained to recognize in nature the working of infinite power. But to man's unaided reason, nature's teaching cannot but be contradictory and disappointing. Only in the light of revelation can it be read aright. "Through faith we understand." Hebrews 11:3. {Ed 134.1} So today man cannot of himself read aright the teaching of nature. Unless guided by divine wisdom, he exalts nature and the laws of nature above nature's God. This is why mere human ideas in regard to science so often contradict the teaching of God's word. {MH 461.6}
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102593
09/13/08 06:55 PM
09/13/08 06:55 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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R: What in nature hints at lying, for instance, being wrong? Especially if you do it for a good purpose? MM: The fact people naturally feel wrong about lying is evidence they were born with the law written upon every nerve and function of their being from birth. They don't feel wrong about lying for a good purpose, like Rahab did. In my opinion, hers was a sin of ignorance. Is your opinion that just the last six commandments are written in the hearts of people - and were written in Adam's heart?
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Rosangela]
#102597
09/13/08 07:38 PM
09/13/08 07:38 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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They don't feel wrong about lying for a good purpose, like Rahab did. In my opinion, hers was a sin of ignorance. Rahab feared for her life because she was doing something wrong. Do you know of any Bible commentaries that agree with you? Is your opinion that just the last six commandments are written in the hearts of people - and were written in Adam's heart? All ten.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102600
09/14/08 01:48 AM
09/14/08 01:48 AM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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R: They don't feel wrong about lying for a good purpose, like Rahab did. In my opinion, hers was a sin of ignorance. MM: Rahab feared for her life because she was doing something wrong. Do you know of any Bible commentaries that agree with you? She feared for her life? If she had feared for her life, she would have denounced the spies. On the contrary, she risked her life to protect them. Sure, I can find Bible commentaries which agree with me. James, Fausset and Brown: This was a palpable deception. But, as lying is a common vice among heathen people, Rahab was probably unconscious of its moral guilt, especially as she resorted to it as a means for screening her guests; and she might deem herself bound to do it by the laws of Eastern hospitality, which make it a point of honor to preserve the greatest enemy, if he has once eaten one’s salt. Judged by the divine law, her answer was a sinful expedient; but her infirmity being united with faith, she was graciously pardoned and her service accepted (Jam_2:25). Matthew Henry: Rahab knew, by what was already done on the other side Jordan, that no mercy was to be shown to the Canaanites, and thence inferred that, if mercy was not owing them, truth was not; those that might be destroyed might be deceived. Yet divines generally conceive that it was a sin, which however admitted of this extenuation, that being a Canaanite she was not better taught the evil of lying; but God accepted her faith and pardoned her infirmity. ... But God accepts what is sincerely and honestly intended, though there be a mixture of frailty and folly in it, and is not extreme to mark what we do amiss. SDABC: Please consult the comment on Jos. 2:4. I don't have an English copy, but it says more or less the following: In the case of a Christian, a lie can never be justified, but the light comes only gradually to a person like Rahab. [translation from Spanish back into English] It then goes on to speak about a time when the people of God didn't know about the Sabbath and the tithe, and then quotes Acts 17:30.
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