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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Rosangela]
#102612
09/14/08 05:43 AM
09/14/08 05:43 AM
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OP
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Nothing in the natural world reveals or reiterates the first four commandments. The following passages make it clear that humans misinterpret nature and form erroneous conclusions about God. It is impossible to read nature aright without an intelligent, intimate knowledge of God's word, the Holy Bible. If your last sentence were true, then no one from Adam to Moses read nature aright. Also reading nature aright isn't the issue. The issue is why you make a distinction between the first four commandments and the last six. None of the statements you quoted suggested a distinction between the two tables. If a person has wrong conceptions of God, that will lead him to break all 10 of the commandments, not just the first 4.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Tom]
#102627
09/14/08 05:46 PM
09/14/08 05:46 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Having memorized what eventually became part of the Bible is as good as having the Bible in hand. Having the Bible in mind is as good as having it in hand. Thus the people who lived before Moses recorded the Bible were able to read nature aright.
The heathens Paul and Sister White wrote about lived in harmony with the last six commandments without knowing they exist. They were able to do this by the power of the Holy Spirit without realizing He exists. But no one has been able to live in harmony with the first four commandments without realizing they exist.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102638
09/14/08 07:38 PM
09/14/08 07:38 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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The heathens Paul and Sister White wrote about lived in harmony with the last six commandments without knowing they exist. They were able to do this by the power of the Holy Spirit without realizing He exists. But no one has been able to live in harmony with the first four commandments without realizing they exist. Why do you think this? I guess I'm several things. 1.Why do you think the heathen lived in harmony with the last six commandments without knowing they existed? 2.Why do you think they didn't keep the first three commandments? 3.Why do you think no one has been able to live in harmony with the first three commandments without realizing they exist?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Tom]
#102655
09/15/08 02:17 AM
09/15/08 02:17 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102666
09/15/08 03:25 AM
09/15/08 03:25 AM
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OP
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A thought that comes to mind is that AFAIK you are the only one who holds this view. If this really were reality, wouldn't it be likely that someone else would perceive it?
Also your response is rather skimpy. If you would elaborate that would be appreciated.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Tom]
#102692
09/15/08 06:14 PM
09/15/08 06:14 PM
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1.Why do you think the heathen lived in harmony with the last six commandments without knowing they existed?
People who have never heard of the Bible have lived in harmony with the last half of the law of God. See Romans 2:13-15.
2.Why do you think they didn't keep the first three commandments?
Because it is impossible to live in harmony with commandments you've never heard of.
3.Why do you think no one has been able to live in harmony with the first three commandments without realizing they exist?
Because nothing outside the Bible teaches it.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102708
09/15/08 09:13 PM
09/15/08 09:13 PM
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OP
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(T)1.Why do you think the heathen lived in harmony with the last six commandments without knowing they existed?
(M)People who have never heard of the Bible have lived in harmony with the last half of the law of God. See Romans 2:13-15. This isn't limited to the last half of the law. (T)2.Why do you think they didn't keep the first three commandments?
M:Because it is impossible to live in harmony with commandments you've never heard of. No, this isn't the case. Those whom Christ commends in the judgment may have known little of theology, but they have cherished His principles. (DA 638) Christ's principles are embodied by the 10 Commandments. For example, those among the heathen who are converted have no other Gods before God. God communicates with them by the Holy Spirit. They know His voice, just like any other child of God. (T)3.Why do you think no one has been able to live in harmony with the first three commandments without realizing they exist?
M:Because nothing outside the Bible teaches it. This isn't true at all. It is God who teaches the commandments by the Holy Spirit. God uses the Bible, but He is not limited to the Bible to instruct His children.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Tom]
#102728
09/16/08 03:00 PM
09/16/08 03:00 PM
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TE: Christ's principles are embodied by the 10 Commandments. For example, those among the heathen who are converted have no other Gods before God. God communicates with them by the Holy Spirit. They know His voice, just like any other child of God.
MM: I agree. They embrace the truths they didn't know instinctively when presented to them by missionaries if they were already living in harmony with their conscience and convictions.
By the way, how did the Holy Spirit reveal the first half of the law of God to them without using a Bible or a missionary? Please cite an example.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102760
09/16/08 07:23 PM
09/16/08 07:23 PM
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OP
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# The Davis Indians of Guyana (overwhelmingly SDA), and their messenger, Akura, who clearly was taught with no Bible: "In these visions he was taught many things, including abstaining from eating unclean meats, the seventh-day Sabbath, and prayer." A detailed story is here: http://tinyurl.com/5rtk9n (if he requires more SDA proof of this here is a http://tinyurl.com/5awbnx ) # The Native Inupiat (Eskimo to you guys in NYC) Maniilaq who Maniilaq in the mid 1800's learns about the Sabbath without ever reading a Bible or seeing a missionary. Predicts future changes to the Eskimo people, free's the people from the power of the Shamans various taboos and teaches people to honor the seventh day of the week as a day of rest in honor of “Grandfather” in heaven. # Hong Xiuchuan, a peasant farmer in China learns about God through a remarkable vision. His religious zeal sweeps through the oppressed peasant class, inspiring the greatest revolutionary movement of the 19th century. The Taiping leaders took the fourth commandment quite literally, requiring the observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Sins of ignorance
[Re: Tom]
#102852
09/18/08 03:10 PM
09/18/08 03:10 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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# The Davis Indians of Guyana (overwhelmingly SDA), and their messenger, Akura. I couldn't find any reputable information on this story. The story seems to have originated with Bob Norton, an SDA mission pilot in Venezuela. # The Native Inupiat (Eskimo to you guys in NYC) Maniilaq. This story is full of contradictions. The Pole and the Day of Reverence Maniixauraq erected his pole everywhere he went. He then attached something to the end of the pole. He told the people that the day on which he attached something to it was a day to revere. He further told them that one special day should be respected. Today, we find it to be the Sabbath day, Sunday. The Day of Rest I had planned to speak only briefly but another thing is that before I came here, I spoke to my 'older sister' Sanmiban (Flora Cleveland) and found out that he also had his pole when he was living across there at Sisualik. It is said that as life went on for him, he told the people that he had reverence for one day. He said that he would not work and would simply rest on that certain day. Well, when the day came, he was reported to have hung something on the end of his pole. By attaching something to the end of his pole, this was probably how he showed the people that the day had arrived. After attaching the thing to the pole on the day he said he would rest and not work, that is just what he did. He simply rested. This is what Cora Gray said as she relayed her mother's words. As it turned out, somehow he knew it was Sunday (although there were no calendars) and it was then that he rested and told the people he held that day in reverence. The Sabbath Esther's father, Aqsivaabruk, said that Maniixaq rested every seven days, or on the seventh. Although people in those days knew nothing of the week-days as we know them today (for they viewed time and space from a different perspective than we do now), Maniixauraq rested on the seventh day. Today, we interpret this to be the Sabbath day. When Christianity was in its early stages in this area, people rested on the Sabbath, which was understood to be Saturday. Later we went along with those that changed their Sabbath to Sunday. As it was, it is said that Maniixauraq rested on the seventh of every seven days. He did not work on that day. People often said to him, "Why are you resting? You are just lazy, that is why you are not doing anything." He replied that he lived by the commandments of his grandfather. Esther Norton said more but she did not write them down, so that is all I have to say for now. The Day of Rest It is said that Maniixaq rested every seventh day. "It is a day of rest," he said and that was what he did on that day. In those days, people had never heard of a day of rest. They most likely did not say such things as, "The day of rest has arrived." Of course in those days, they did not even have calendars so they were not aware of a day of rest within a week. In spite of this, it is said that Maniixaq rested true to his word, and did not do any work on the seventh day of every seven days. As it was, he must have rested on the Sabbath. After all, beginning with Monday, Sunday is the seventh day of each week. He must have known about it in spite of the rest of the people's ignorance of such matters in those days, which explains why he did rest. http://www.alaskool.org/language/Maniilaq/webhtm/Maniilaq_sec4.htm#eibenglish# Hong Xiuchuan. This story has odd elements. He thought he was the Son of God. The leader of the rebellion, Hong Xiuchuan, considered himself a Christian and saw himself as the son of God ordered to save the world. His movement was for sharing wealth, for land distribution and for the Ten Commandments. It favored chastity and an end to foot-binding for women and was opposed to opium smoking. It swept across central-eastern China, intending to drive away" Manchu demons" and rival faiths - the rebels destroying Buddhist and Taoist temples. Chinese intellectuals sided with Manchu rule rather than Hong's rebellion. And Christian missionaries rejected Hong's movement, seeing Hong's views as heretical and his movement as an infringement on their own moves to Christianize. http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h38china.htm
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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