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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#106531
12/25/08 07:14 PM
12/25/08 07:14 PM
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cutting out the human reasoning. but even still we are so programmed into thinking a certain way that the only way to see what these verses, in addition to the ones that were left out, say is to ask God to cleanse us of all tradition. for those who believe sdas have no "tradition" in our religion, i would strongly suggest we try it and see what all comes up. but, it doesnt come up over night, but over time.
But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly. (Genesis 13:13, KJV)
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. (Deuteronomy 23:17, KJV)
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jude 1:7, KJV)
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. (Romans 1:26-27, KJV)
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; (Genesis 18:20, KJV)
And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it. (Genesis 19:1-13, KJV)
I hope that helps. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
Last edited by teresaq; 12/25/08 07:17 PM.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: teresaq]
#106532
12/25/08 07:41 PM
12/25/08 07:41 PM
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Deu 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
H6945 qâdêsh kaw-dashe'
From H6942; a (quasi) sacred person, that is, (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: - sodomite, unclean. the question is, is "sodomite" a biblical word or a word we made up? this is how ellen white uses the word "sodomite" but this is only two places where she touches on the sins of sodom. The dwellers in Sodom were corrupt; vile conversation greeted his ears daily, and his righteous soul was vexed by the violence and crime which he was powerless to prevent. His children were becoming like these wicked people; for association with them had perverted their morals. Taking all these things into consideration, the worldly riches he had gained seemed small, not worth the price he had paid for them. His family connections were extensive, his children having married among the Sodomites. {RH, November 14, 1882 par. 5}
Men have lifted themselves up in pride and self-sufficiency, casting down the needy and oppressing the hireling in his wages. Against them have been registered covetousness, pride, and self-indulgence. They show contempt for the laws which govern God's kingdom. God has borne long with them; but in response to His amazing forbearance, men are approaching that degree of iniquity which the antediluvians reached, to perish in the waters of the flood, and which the Sodomites reached, to be destroyed by fire from heaven. {RH, September 17, 1901 par. 5}
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: teresaq]
#106608
12/27/08 08:44 PM
12/27/08 08:44 PM
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By the way, who said S&G was destroyed because they indulged the sin of homosexuality? The following passages indicate the twin cities were destroyed because of many species of sins: As long as Satan lives, his efforts will be constant and untiring to make the world as wicked as before the Flood and as licentious as were the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. {TMK 267.3}
The gratification of unnatural appetite led to the sins that caused the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God ascribes the fall of Babylon to her gluttony and drunkenness. Indulgence of appetite and passion was the foundation of all their sins. {CD 147.3}
This is a crime [men masturbating young women] in the sight of God and I cannot cover it over as a light matter. It is a Sodomitish sin. It is tainting and polluting in all its tendencies, and an abomination in the sight of a holy God. It is practicing iniquity. {TSB 125.1}
Sin has prevailed since the fall. While a few have remained faithful to God, the great majority have corrupted their ways before him. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was on account of their great wickedness. They gave loose rein to their intemperate appetites, then to their corrupt passions, until they were so debased, and their sins were so abominable, that their cup of iniquity was full, and they were consumed with fire from heaven. {4aSG 121.3}
The inhabitants of the Noachian world were destroyed because they were corrupted through the indulgence of perverted appetite. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed through the gratification of unnatural appetite, which so benumbed the intellect that they could not discern the difference between the sacred claims of God and the clamor of appetite. The latter enslaved them, and they became so ferocious and bold in their detestable abominations that God would not tolerate them upon the earth. God ascribes the wickedness of Babylon to her gluttony and drunkenness. {3T 162.2}
The pursuit of pleasure and amusement centers in the cities. Many parents who choose a city home for their children, thinking to give them greater advantages, meet with disappointment, and too late repent their terrible mistake. The cities of today are fast becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah. The many holidays encourage idleness. The exciting sports--theatergoing, horse racing, gambling, liquor-drinking, and reveling--stimulate every passion to intense activity. The youth are swept away by the popular current. Those who learn to love amusement for its own sake open the door to a flood of temptations. They give themselves up to social gaiety and thoughtless mirth, and their intercourse with pleasure lovers has an intoxicating effect upon the mind. They are led on from one form of dissipation to another, until they lose both the desire and the capacity for a life of usefulness. Their religious aspirations are chilled; their spiritual life is darkened. All the nobler faculties of the soul, all that link man with the spiritual world, are debased. {COL 54.3}
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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: Mountain Man]
#106622
12/27/08 10:52 PM
12/27/08 10:52 PM
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go visit the ************************** which is temporarily offline for awhile.
========
As we want the discussion to be held and continued here, we do not encourage this type of a response to go to another site, therefore, the names of those sites have been removed. - Daryl Fawcett, Administrator.
Last edited by Daryl Fawcett; 12/31/08 10:41 PM.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: teresaq]
#115906
07/13/09 04:52 AM
07/13/09 04:52 AM
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The crowd became more clamorous in their cries to have Lot bring forth the strangers to them; for they had become so base through the indulgence of evil passions, that every good thought had been uprooted, and reason was so clouded that they would even do violence to the angels of heaven. {ST, October 9, 1893 par. 6}
The angels had come to see if there were any in the city who were not corrupted, and could be persuaded to flee from the impending doom that threatened Sodom....The night of the destruction of Sodom the inhabitants of the city were doing that which they had been doing through all their past life.....Lot expostulated with them at his door, and refused to permit them to do violence to the strangers who were in his house.
Deu 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
H6945 kaw-dashe'
From H6942; a (quasi) sacred person, that is, (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry: - sodomite, unclean.
esv Deu 23:17 "None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, and none of the sons of Israel shall be a cult prostitute.
"sodomite" is a word that came into use millenia past the event.
a search of how ellen white uses the word should erase all misunderstandings as to what a sodomite is.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: teresaq]
#115915
07/13/09 03:26 PM
07/13/09 03:26 PM
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Yes, sodomy is sexual perversion. No doubt about it. But S&G were destroyed for many reasons. Ellen White explains it in the following passages:
The inhabitants of the Noachian world were destroyed because they were corrupted through the indulgence of perverted appetite. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed through the gratification of unnatural appetite, which so benumbed the intellect that they could not discern the difference between the sacred claims of God and the clamor of appetite. The latter enslaved them, and they became so ferocious and bold in their detestable abominations that God would not tolerate them upon the earth. God ascribes the wickedness of Babylon to her gluttony and drunkenness. {3T 162.2}
The pursuit of pleasure and amusement centers in the cities. Many parents who choose a city home for their children, thinking to give them greater advantages, meet with disappointment, and too late repent their terrible mistake. The cities of today are fast becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah. The many holidays encourage idleness. The exciting sports--theatergoing, horse racing, gambling, liquor-drinking, and reveling--stimulate every passion to intense activity. The youth are swept away by the popular current. Those who learn to love amusement for its own sake open the door to a flood of temptations. They give themselves up to social gaiety and thoughtless mirth, and their intercourse with pleasure lovers has an intoxicating effect upon the mind. They are led on from one form of dissipation to another, until they lose both the desire and the capacity for a life of usefulness. Their religious aspirations are chilled; their spiritual life is darkened. All the nobler faculties of the soul, all that link man with the spiritual world, are debased. {COL 54.3}
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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: Mountain Man]
#115925
07/13/09 06:03 PM
07/13/09 06:03 PM
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agreed. she has a lot to say about sodom and gomorrah and us, that we overlook when focused on one point that isnt even stated in the bible or sop.  Jesus, Who was present, at the time of sodom and gomorrah, does not equate the overthrow to "homosexuality" so why do we? Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. or perhaps some are afraid that homosexuality is being condoned by those who prefer to see what the real point is......
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: teresaq]
#115952
07/13/09 08:39 PM
07/13/09 08:39 PM
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Ah, yes, the homophobes. Too bad. How sad. The Bible and the SOP are very clear about God's attitude toward homosexuality and homosexuals. We don't need to turn the story of S&G into something it isn't in order to condemn homosexuality. However, more to the point - We need to search the Scriptures and the SOP to learn how to love the sinner and not hate them on account of their sin.
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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: Mountain Man]
#115957
07/13/09 10:18 PM
07/13/09 10:18 PM
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i really respect you, my brother, in spite of some of our differences.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: sodom and gomorrah
[Re: teresaq]
#115982
07/14/09 02:01 PM
07/14/09 02:01 PM
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Thank you. The feeling is mutual.
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