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Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
#104796
11/18/08 02:07 PM
11/18/08 02:07 PM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,131
Florida, USA
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Here is clearly the Omega of Apostasy, saying they believe in the Spirit of Prophecy while at the same time undermining the doctrines and hidding the truth of Adventism in a shifting sands of a "Spirit-led, dynamic movement"?... Take a look at this article in "Progressive Adventism" called 'Change: The Adventist Constant': ".......Forecasting Future Changes 1. Sanctuary/Investigative Judgment: 1844 will be meaningful subjectively in the Adventist world as the time of the inauguration of the movement, but not objectively as THE fulfillment of Daniel 8:14. What will be salvaged is the “investigative” nature of judgment which is already clearly presaged in John Wesley’s writings. 2. Remnant: That the Adventist church is “the remnant church of Bible prophecy” (Baptismal Vow) will be revised into an expression that is more humble and open to God’s truth and revelation in other churches and religions, while continuing to claim a special, particular mission and calling as a movement raised up by God. The ongoing formal dialogues with other denominations and religions (and the increasing collaborative efforts taking place at the local level) will effectively make the “remnant church” claim a relic of the 19th century Adventism. 3. Daniel & Revelation: The two apocalypses will be read increasingly under the influence of the apocalyptic teachings of Jesus in the Gospels. This will have a tempering impact on reading the two books as definite timelines, but more as illustrations of the power of God and expressions of Christian hope and courage. 4. Ellen White: While her foundational influence will never be forgotten nor ignored, she will be read more and more as Luther, Calvin and Wesley (btw, the three angels of Rev 14 according to early Wesleyan interpreters) have come to be appreciated in their respective traditions. Adventists will come to a place where they are free to disagree with her openly without needing to discard her or her prophetic ministry. 5. Creation/Origin of Life: Most Adventists in the foreseeable future will retain variations of young-earth creationist views, but as global Adventism becomes more educated and affluent, there will be a greater degree of tolerance toward evolutionary creationists in their midst. This issue will increasingly become less of a litmus test. 6. Clean/Unclean Meat: Given the seriousness with which the words of Jesus and Paul (e.g., Mark 7, Romans 14) are taken, Leviticus 11 will cease to be strictly followed by Adventists. Instead, as is the case with jewelry, this issue will become a matter of individual choice. 7. Homosexuality: Most Adventists in the foreseeable future will remain averse to acceptance of homosexuality as a legitimate expression of one’s sexuality. But as global Adventism becomes more educated and exposed to homosexual individuals in their personal lives, there will be a greater degree of tolerance toward homosexuals in their midst. This issue will increasingly become less of a litmus test. 8. Scripture: Adventists will no longer be marked by one way of reading Scripture or one narrow set of interpretations. Diverse interpretations will flourish and lively, at times very contentious, debates will accompany them. Official pronouncements will always take a more cautious, conservative approach, but an acknowledgment will be made of a diversity of opinions that exist on some contentious issues. Life will go on, people and this church will keep on changing, and the Spirit will guide the process. Some will say that this is a prediction of doom. Others will say that this is the wish list of a desperate, even delusional, soul. For me, it is a simple expression of hope for the future of a Spirit-led, dynamic movement...." http://progressiveadventism.com/2008/03/09/change-the-adventist-constant/
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: Rick H]
#104817
11/18/08 07:00 PM
11/18/08 07:00 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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It is not difficult to imagine these steps to apostasy considering the fact most of them are true now in most SDA churches!
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: Mountain Man]
#114440
06/09/09 05:00 AM
06/09/09 05:00 AM
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It seems that the two most startling aspects of what appears to be the Omega apostasy are the classes promoting evolution and homosexual acceptance and even promotion in our institutions of higher learning and in many of our churches and some local and divisional church headquarters. (This apostasy began to simmer back in the late '70's with the apostasy of W Rhea and D Ford) When you throw out the prophet, you usually end up thowing out the scriptures as well, and then anything goes! We were told the Omega apostasy would especially target our youth, make light of the Sabbath, would be of a most startling nature, would seek to wrest control of our educational, medical and theological work and institutions away from church control, etc. If you go along with evolution, then it negates what was given at creation- the Sabbath and marriage. Of course what naturally follows is no sancutary message, and no need for a prophet. So- satan's final attack on the testimonies, to make them of none effect including the warning about the Omega apostasy and all it would contain! It seems it is about time for a "shaking out" of the likes we have not seen yet. We should not be surprised by current events and what is happening, we were told this would happen at the very end of time. The rock music that came into many of our churches in the '80's was foretold by EGW, and she said it would happen at the very end! So that shows how really close we are to the end! Such as: we are right there folks!
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: Mountain Man]
#119237
09/15/09 06:27 PM
09/15/09 06:27 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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It is not difficult to imagine these steps to apostasy considering the fact most of them are true now in most SDA churches! How is the OP list a sign of apostasy?
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: vastergotland]
#119250
09/15/09 10:15 PM
09/15/09 10:15 PM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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It is not difficult to imagine these steps to apostasy considering the fact most of them are true now in most SDA churches! How is the OP list a sign of apostasy? Thomas, without no.1 on the list remaining objective fulfilment of Dan 8:14, as illustrated by Ezek 9 - as Prof. Richard Davidson, head of OT at the seminary points out, you can forget the rest of the list remaining at all relevant. Apostacy from the 3 Angels' Message is the issue, not whether you keep the 7th day Sabbath or not - and even the Sabbath is now flouted across America in their way, while Scandinavia and the Benelux countries have their way, and the rest of the first world, and so on: maybe the rest of the world may be conscientious, I don't know it too well. Those 8 points delineate the abandonment of the 3 Angels' Message, without which we are no longer the Remnant church for the world to look to.
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: Colin]
#119281
09/16/09 07:29 AM
09/16/09 07:29 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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So, if we change the traditional adventist interpretation of Dan 8:14, it makes what we think about Ellen or creation or scripture irrelevant?
I think that at least point 2 is a change for a more true understnading of the bible. Maybe other points aswelll such as the 3rd.
I dont see how the points in the list, with the possible exceptions of point 5, can be connected with apostacy from the 3 angles message. It is in such case a highly buffed version of the message.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: vastergotland]
#119310
09/16/09 08:30 PM
09/16/09 08:30 PM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Well, what is the SDA in existence for? To finish both the Reformation and to usher in the kingdom by preparing a people on earth to live to see Christ come in all the glory of heaven: that's big stuff, and involves Christian perfection on the ground down here, as taught by the 1844 interpretation of Dan 8:14.
Sorry for stating the obvious there, but whatever else Christians believe is true in the Bible, creation, the spirit of prophecy in the last days, the whole book, Christ himself as Saviour of all men, unless the last step of the gospel - completing sanctification for those who are justified by faith in heart and mind and then life itself too, the gospel is incomplete on earth.
We can be socialite Adventists all we like - and there is a need for also relaxing together without theology filling our minds, but "dynamic" Adventism isn't workable - isn't what Adventism is, given the teachings of the Bible espoused by Ellen White's contemporaries and those since who have upheld that clarity of our high calling to perfect Christlikeness, for vindicating God's glory.
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: Colin]
#119328
09/17/09 02:58 AM
09/17/09 02:58 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,452
Canada
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7)"But as global Adventism becomes more educated..." 5)"as global Adventism becomes more educated and affluent 8)"Adventists will no longer be marked by one way of reading Scripture or one narrow set of interpretations....a diversity of opinions
Ya -- those uneducated narrow minded Seventh-day Adventists must be educated and changed from their narrow mindedness and beliefs in absolutes, so they will fit into the global paradigm of ecumenical thought. That is the agenda. How else can the "whole world wander after the beast and his image" unless the people are educated into a global, non-dogmatic religious mindframe, -- a where ever the "spirit" leads acceptance of "diverse interpretations" is the goal in the outline above.
Yet once the foundations are removed it's an easy slide into the popular "worship" program predicted in Rev. 13. I mean -- if everything in the Bible has MANY possible interpretations, who is going to stand up to civil force to resist a very "peace, unity, love" quoting movement, to cling to their "narrow, uneducated" beliefs?
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: dedication]
#119363
09/17/09 01:10 PM
09/17/09 01:10 PM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Yes, the simplicity of faith will be lost without absolutes. Well said, Dedication.
Relative is solely how each person experiences God's truth and grows in it. The foundations are resolute.
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: Colin]
#119472
09/19/09 03:07 AM
09/19/09 03:07 AM
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New Member (Starting to Post)
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11
New Zealand
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its sad how earnest, sincere young people can go in to a theological seminary and come out not sure what they believe anymore;only retaining a vague feel good ,dont rock the boat religion
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: pepperwood]
#119482
09/19/09 01:29 PM
09/19/09 01:29 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014
Veteran Member
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
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Yes Pepperwood, sad but true.
Same happens in many fields - medicine, law, engineering, politics. The universities are designed to foster independence from God; a human wisdom and selfish consumption.
The seminaries inflict the greatest harm because professing the noblest aim. Thus the minds are open to receive. Or as Romans 1 describes the system "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools."
The 'vague feel good' is ecumenical in nature, so leads to Mars' hill where the once promising youth worship "THE UNKNOWN GOD" and teach others likewise.
Jesus never attended seminary, so He could rock the boat. His mind stayed pure. Rock on Jesus. _________
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: pepperwood]
#119483
09/19/09 01:29 PM
09/19/09 01:29 PM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Thank you, pepperwood: yes, we do our seminary students a disservice... Welcome to the Maritime forum! I haven't been chipping in much this year, but I see you're from NZ: How has it been for you there, where it has been reported to me as mostly just as you say but with pockets of certainty about our beliefs? I've heard of and visited the Waitara church in Sydney, which holds up the SDA standard powerfully, while the popular approach is celebration style revivals. The pastor also told me that Sydney is becoming like London, here, in ethnic terms, also, but he didn't elaborate on that
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: gordonb1]
#119484
09/19/09 01:47 PM
09/19/09 01:47 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014
Veteran Member
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
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The seminaries are unequipped to teach the Word in Truth because they do not possess the greatest principle, which is Love.
God is Love. Love is the fulfilling of the Law.
Vain hope to send our children to school and expect them to learn Love, which is the basis of salvation.
Often instead they will learn to love money. How long will we sacrifice our children to idols? ________
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: Colin]
#119497
09/19/09 06:38 PM
09/19/09 06:38 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Yes, the simplicity of faith will be lost without absolutes. Well said, Dedication.
Relative is solely how each person experiences God's truth and grows in it. The foundations are resolute. Not only simple faith is born out of absolutes. Its sibling is fundamentalism which is a curse on anyone who catches it...
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: dedication]
#119499
09/19/09 07:18 PM
09/19/09 07:18 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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7)"But as global Adventism becomes more educated..." 5)"as global Adventism becomes more educated and affluent 8)"Adventists will no longer be marked by one way of reading Scripture or one narrow set of interpretations....a diversity of opinions
Ya -- those uneducated narrow minded Seventh-day Adventists must be educated and changed from their narrow mindedness and beliefs in absolutes, so they will fit into the global paradigm of ecumenical thought. That is the agenda. How else can the "whole world wander after the beast and his image" unless the people are educated into a global, non-dogmatic religious mindframe, -- a where ever the "spirit" leads acceptance of "diverse interpretations" is the goal in the outline above.
I guess this is one way of writing it, if one wishes to play the demagogue. It could also be read to understand that "ignorance is not bliss after all". It could be a reminder of how this church once was founded by people who made an effort to create a worldwide education network for the express purpose of not leaving people ignorant of these important things. It could be that understanding how the path from A to B isnt always as straightforward as the sabbath school lesson would suggest. Or it could as you say be a devilish plot to turn the church into the hands of the devil himself. hmm... Yet once the foundations are removed it's an easy slide into the popular "worship" program predicted in Rev. 13. I mean -- if everything in the Bible has MANY possible interpretations, who is going to stand up to civil force to resist a very "peace, unity, love" quoting movement, to cling to their "narrow, uneducated" beliefs?
Those who first put these "narrow, uneducated" beliefs didn't scorn education as you do here.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: pepperwood]
#119500
09/19/09 07:25 PM
09/19/09 07:25 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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its sad how earnest, sincere young people can go in to a theological seminary and come out not sure what they believe anymore;only retaining a vague feel good ,dont rock the boat religion Which is better, a faith that stands naive and untested but ernest and truly sincere or a faith which is tested in the crucibles of life and comes out victorious and shining as of gold? (ref Zecharaiah) How can God test and purify a child of His who refuses to stop drinking milk and start eating solid food? (ref 1 Corinthians and Hebrews)
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: pepperwood]
#119504
09/19/09 09:46 PM
09/19/09 09:46 PM
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its sad how earnest, sincere young people can go in to a theological seminary and come out not sure what they believe anymore;only retaining a vague feel good ,dont rock the boat religion When my parents took me to Southern in 1979, the Librarian took my parents aside and told them that if I was not well grounded in the Spirit of Prophecy, to think twice about leaving me, as her child who just graduated from Southern (SMC at the time)was not an athiest... Very sad... and that was back in 1979...No doubt it is much worse today.
Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: vastergotland]
#119505
09/19/09 10:40 PM
09/19/09 10:40 PM
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Yes, the simplicity of faith will be lost without absolutes. Well said, Dedication.
Relative is solely how each person experiences God's truth and grows in it. The foundations are resolute. Not only simple faith is born out of absolutes. Its sibling is fundamentalism which is a curse on anyone who catches it... How very true. Not 'rocking the boat' means .... don't knock people over the head and condemn them. Do as Jesus would do and win them with Love not Rebuke. Try to meet their needs. Make a friend. Allow the HS to draw them to ask questions as their conditions grows in Christ.
Last edited by I Am His; 09/19/09 10:43 PM.
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: Tammy Roesch]
#119712
09/24/09 10:18 AM
09/24/09 10:18 AM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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its sad how earnest, sincere young people can go in to a theological seminary and come out not sure what they believe anymore;only retaining a vague feel good ,dont rock the boat religion When my parents took me to Southern in 1979, the Librarian took my parents aside and told them that if I was not well grounded in the Spirit of Prophecy, to think twice about leaving me, as her child who just graduated from Southern (SMC at the time)was not an athiest... Very sad... and that was back in 1979...No doubt it is much worse today. I've heard the same from current SDA parents of a Newbold graduate: he left an atheist.
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Re: Signs of the Times-Omega of Apostasy
[Re: Colin]
#119851
09/28/09 05:01 AM
09/28/09 05:01 AM
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A new years has started up. Lets earnestly keep our schools in our prayers. PUC has a new president. I think she has some big challenges ahead of her. So keep her in your prayers. There are still a few faculty who "haven't bow to the world".
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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