Mike.

You wrote to Brandi:

So what happens if you think something bad, or do something, and you feel that guilt? We need to repent from that and ask for forgiveness, and we will be forgiven.

Unquote.

Question: When Israel sin, Christ came and died for them to redeem them. Now, when you sin, would Christ come and die again to redeem you? If not, then, by his grace, God must forgive our sin. Isn’t this breaking his own integrity, for the law condemns us but he justify us still?

In His love

James S.

James, good questions. Thank you. Here's what makes sense to me. Justification accommodates our past sins confessed and forgiven and present sins committed unwittingly. Even if we cooperate with Jesus from now on and never sin again the fact we have sinned in the past means we need a Saviour forever. Nothing can change it. Jesus' role as Saviour is eternal. Ceasing from sin does not cancel the blood of Jesus.

The atoning blood of Jesus doesn't cease working on our behalf simply because He empowers us to cease sinning. The grace of Jesus restores to us the ability to mature in the fruits of the Spirit in the exact same way Jesus did as He grew from childhood to manhood. But this does not mean that His justifying blood is no longer necessary to atone for past sins. The blood of Jesus is good for eternity - it never expires.

James,

This is a quick note to advise you that you now have access into the The Quest For Truth forum.

Daryl.

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

In His love

James S

James wrote:

quote:

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Question: Is this a theory only, or do you believe this could be carried out in our life? If you believe this could be carried out, then surely at the end the law would justify us for our perfect righteousness obtained through perfect obedience to the law. If this is the case, wasn’t Christ means nothing to us and he died in vain, we are fallen from grace, for the law would justify us unto eternal life?

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My understanding is that the law doesn't justify anyboby. When grace empowers you to obey the law it doesn't mean that you are the one who is trying to justify yourself by deeds of the law. Grace by it's nature is power which we do not derive internally but from Jesus and therefore if you are able to overcome it isn't by your own power and therefore you don't deserve the glory.

That is why Paul under the inspiration of God says that we are not under the law, this is because Grace will give us the power to live in harmony with God's law, this is contrary to the popular belief that since we are under Grace we should live as we please whether in harmony or contrary to the law . Deeds of the law are never a means to salvation Jesus is the only way to salvation. To be under grace IMO means that we are not under the condemnation of the law, but that doesn't mean that we have no responsibility to the law. After all if Grace removed any responsibility to the law that would go contrary to many passages in scripture both in the old and new testaments. Words like "If you love Me, keep My commandments" uttered by our saviour himself would be meaningless. Grace doesn't in any way negate the law but on the contrary it establishes the true principles of the law of Love.

Blessings,
EDWIN

Edwin, thank you for sharing these truths. But I think you'll find that James disagrees. He has said all along that the law of Jesus replaced the law of God when Jesus died on the cross. In his opinion the primary purpose of the law of God is to condemn us so that we realize our need of a Saviour.

But once we are born again, according to James, the law of God no longer applies because we are now under the jurisdiction of the law of Jesus. He says the Holy Spirit empowers born again believers to live in harmony with the principles of God's law but physical sabbath keeping is no longer required.

The law of Jesus, unlike the law of God, does not require physical sabbath keeping. The law of Jesus, according to James, simply says born again believers love God and mankind. So, in reality (as I see it), this understanding of the law is essentially the same, except for one major difference - according to James we are no longer obligated to physically observe the sabbath.

The seventh-day sabbath simply symbolizes righteousness by faith every day of the week - and that's all. If we observe it according to the word of God we are placing ourselves back under the law of God (as opposed to the law of Jesus), and as such we are condemned as law breakers.

Perhpas this brief summary will help understand what James believes about law and grace.

Then I guess everyone in the earth made new will be placing themselves back under the law again, since they'll all be physically keeping the sabbath! Isaiah 66:23. Though, of course, the Spirit of God will be empowering all of them to keep His law perfectly -- as is also possible right now.

Mike.

I would like to comment on your post, posted February 16, 2004 11:46 AM.

First, you said: “The grace of Jesus restores to us the ability to mature in the fruits of the Spirit in the exact same way Jesus did as He grew from childhood to manhood.”

I think, according to you, maturing in the fruits of the Spirit as Jesus did is the ability to obey the law perfectly through the Spirit.

The question is: when Jesus lived his life on earth, was he dependant on the Spirit through faith? If you think so, please provide a quote from the Scripture. If no, then why do you need the Spirit? Didn’t God implant in you the miracle of rebirth, a new heart ruled with his love and a new sinless mind of Christ? Is this not enough for you to keep and obey the law perfectly without sinning? Could you not do it on your own?

I agree that Jesus never cease to be our Mediator to atone our sins with his blood, but I can accept only when we are not under condemnation of a law that stands as a standard of judgment and righteousness. Because, I think, by coming under the law’s jurisdiction and judgment, I do no longer need Jesus and his grace. Why? Because I believe that the law would justify me unto eternal life for my perfect righteousness in obeying and fulfilling it demands IF I keep and obey it perfectly without breaking it once. But if I break it and sinned, how could God justify me while his law condemns me? How should I reason in the judgment? How could Jesus atone my sins? Didn’t I believe that I might live a perfect sinless life through obedience to the law thanks to my new implanted loving heart and sinless mind? If I do, then, there is no reason to defend me and justify me. Am I correct? If yes, doesn’t it mean that I saved my self through my works of obedience, through the righteousness of the law obtained through obedience? Isn’t this against the Gospel that said: I am justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds of the law?

I ask these questions because I see it as the weakness of your theory.

In his love

James S.

Mike.

You said:

The law of Jesus, unlike the law of God, does not require physical sabbath keeping. The law of Jesus, according to James, simply says born again believers love God and mankind. So, in reality (as I see it), this understanding of the law is essentially the same, except for one major difference - according to James we are no longer obligated to physically observe the sabbath.

The seventh-day sabbath simply symbolizes righteousness by faith every day of the week - and that's all. If we observe it according to the word of God we are placing ourselves back under the law of God (as opposed to the law of Jesus), and as such we are condemned as law breakers.

Perhpas this brief summary will help understand what James believes about law and grace

Unquote.

Here what we also differ, I see it now that Sabbath keeping is a means to obtain righteousness by works, as originated to once it was given to Israel (Leviticus 18:4,5; Romans 10:5).

I think, that Sabbath law does not symbolizes righteousness by faith, for it was given to Israel as a means to seek life through works of obedience to the law. Sabbath keeping symbolizes righteousness by works ever since it was given and remain so.

Am I wrong?

In His love

James S

James, I've addressed these issues in the following two links:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=61;t=000006;p=13

http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=61;t=000004;p=12