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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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Re: Lesson #9 - Metaphors of SALVATION
[Re: Tom]
#105666
12/06/08 06:36 PM
12/06/08 06:36 PM
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Southwest USA
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But does all sinful behavior result in sinners suffering? For example, will two non-believers, who are unmarried in the eyes of God, naturally feel shame and guilt?
Does ignorance cancel out the results of sinning? Excellent! So you do agree that it's possible to ignorant of breaking one of the last six commandments! This is exactly one of the examples I gave of this, btw. Don't get too excited, Tom. You haven't made a convert yet. I only asked questions to help me understand Teresaq's point of view. I'm sorry to disappoint.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Metaphors of SALVATION
[Re: Mountain Man]
#105705
12/07/08 05:26 AM
12/07/08 05:26 AM
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Teresaq, I'm not sure how the quotes you posted addressed my questions. Can you please explain. Thank you. re your questions in #105542. most all of us are going to die the first death no matter how good or how bad we are. everything we do leads to life, eternal life or it leads to death, the second death. otherwise this verse has little meaning. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. the answers to your questions depends on whether we believe God or not. if i sow a corn seed God is not going to come along and make it a money tree. if i sow a weed seed He isnt going to come along and make it grow wheat. Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal 6:8 For he that soweth unto his own flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth unto the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap eternal life. i havent ever been able to read anyones mind yet, nor have i known anyone who could, so we have no idea what they are feeling or not, nor whether they are reaping or not. so how could anyone possibly answer such questions as this? But does all sinful behavior result in sinners suffering? For example, will two non-believers, who are unmarried in the eyes of God, naturally feel shame and guilt?
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Metaphors of SALVATION
[Re: Mountain Man]
#105713
12/07/08 06:37 AM
12/07/08 06:37 AM
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M: Teresaq, I agree sin results in sinners suffering and dying. But it is not sin that kills them. Instead, it is the results of sinning that can lead to suffering and death. For example, it is a sin to murder someone. In such cases it is sinners that causes suffering and death - not sin. But as I mentioned above, not all sins result in death. Nevertheless, any time anyone lives out of harmony with God's will they will suffer in one way or another. In some cases they will suffer unrest, suffer from a God-sized hole in their heart.
T: ok. but i think that is pretty much what i meant when i said sin kills. i dont really think i thought of sin as outside of me attacking me.
M: But does all sinful behavior result in sinners suffering? For example, will two non-believers, who are unmarried in the eyes of God, naturally feel shame and guilt?
Does ignorance cancel out the results of sinning? Or, does sin pay its wages irrespective of ignorance? If not, how can we say sinners reap what they sow?
If people can break one of the commandments without feeling any shame or sorrow, why couldn't they break all ten without feeling any ill effects? Are the consequences of sinning natural or not? Are they arbitrary? Teresaq, I believe people always suffer in one way or another when they sin. It doesn't matter if they have no idea they are sinning. Sin always pays its wages, which involves, when talking about life before death, suffering of some sort including the first death. In some cases it may only involve a sense of emptiness, a God-sized hole in their heart they cannot fill to satisfaction. Ignorantly living in sin (shacking up) and ignorantly breaking the Sabbath are examples. What do you think?
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Re: Lesson #9 - Metaphors of SALVATION
[Re: teresaq]
#105779
12/08/08 07:30 AM
12/08/08 07:30 AM
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Ignorantly living in sin (shacking up) and ignorantly breaking the Sabbath are examples. I agree!
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Metaphors of SALVATION
[Re: Tom]
#105943
12/11/08 03:13 PM
12/11/08 03:13 PM
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Thank you. But, again, please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying people can sin in a way that violates the last half of the law and not be able to put two and two together, that is, no one can steal or lie or cheat and not be able to identify it as the source of their unrest. People know naturally, instinctively it is morally wrong to do things that violate the last six commandments, that doing such things makes them feel anxious and uncomfortable. They may not be able to pin point such things as a violation of the law but they know doing such things makes them feel edgy, and when they don't do them feel a lot better about themselves. People are like this because it's how God wired them from conception and birth. Nobody has to tell them doing such things will make them feel bad. They just know it naturally. Of course, people can, over a period of time, harden their hearts and learn to do such things without feeling bad.
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