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Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
#105680
12/06/08 11:40 PM
12/06/08 11:40 PM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,126
Florida, USA
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.....without the stain of sin?
As I was preparing for the lesson this week, it dawned on me that Satan would not have gained anything by Christ's death in itself. What he needed was to break down Christ to the point of death where he would be more susceptible to stumble and sin. Thus the beatings and lashings and humiliations to get him to sin, along with taunting and baiting for Christ to show himself as the Son of God. Trying to make Christ react out of feelings and anger and reveal his full divinity much like the temptation to use his divine power to make bread out of stone, which would have made Satans point that Christ could not make it as flesh in overcoming sin.
Satan knew to use the Romans soldiers as they were well trained in applying torture without letting the person die quickly, extending it as long as posible and if it included being crucified, you may be left to a agonizing death of several days. But Satan had to get Christ to somehow sin, maybe from the torture and pain, or the loss of blood, or from the numbing affects of vinegar they gave Christ on a sponge. Someway, somehow, he had to be broken and forced to sin, but it had to happen first before his death, Satan would have known that, so what happened that changed his plan.
Last edited by Richard; 12/07/08 01:17 PM.
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Re: Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
[Re: Rick H]
#105704
12/07/08 05:12 AM
12/07/08 05:12 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"So what happened that changed his plan?" Satan never had control in the first place. Jesus was given the power and authority to lay down His life at the right time. No one and nothing killed Jesus. He conquered death on the cross and then laid down His own life. He became the lawful owner of the keys of hell and death and demonstrated it by entering and exiting the domain of death using the keys He wrested from Satan.
Also, Satan could have succeeded if he got Jesus to give up on mankind and return home without tasting death for us.
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Re: Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#105719
12/07/08 07:52 AM
12/07/08 07:52 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.(Acts 2:22)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
[Re: Tom]
#105726
12/07/08 01:45 PM
12/07/08 01:45 PM
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Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Tom, what's your point? If it was the cross that killed Christ, He was just another martyr.
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Re: Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
[Re: Rosangela]
#105764
12/08/08 04:00 AM
12/08/08 04:00 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Tom, as you know the Bible often credits beings with things they didn't actually do themselves. In this case, all of us are guilty of crucifying Jesus - not just the Jews and Romans. In reality, though, Jesus conquered death on the cross. This accomplishes more than merely dying. God gave Jesus the power and authority to lay down and take up His life at the appropriate times. It was no accident.
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Re: Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#105783
12/08/08 08:06 AM
12/08/08 08:06 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Lawrence, Kansas
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It seems odd to affirm that nothing or no one killed Christ. I guess my point is that Christ was killed.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#105789
12/08/08 01:14 PM
12/08/08 01:14 PM
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OP
Group: Admin Team
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"So what happened that changed his plan?" Satan never had control in the first place. Jesus was given the power and authority to lay down His life at the right time. No one and nothing killed Jesus. He conquered death on the cross and then laid down His own life. He became the lawful owner of the keys of hell and death and demonstrated it by entering and exiting the domain of death using the keys He wrested from Satan.
Also, Satan could have succeeded if he got Jesus to give up on mankind and return home without tasting death for us. Here is what we came up after the lesson and a group discussion afterwards. When Christ went into Gethsemena the weight of every sin since the start of the world till the last sin before the end was put upon him. He would have died at that point if the angel had not been sent to strengthen him. The Father withdrawing His light because of the sin, and the weight of the sin caused the sorrow and anguish which was made clear in Christs words and actions. Culminating at the cross where the break in connection with the Father was complete causing Christ to cry out "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?". He then died from the weight of the sin on Him, the affects of the lashes, torture and nailing to the cross by themselves were really not the direct cause. Thus he literally laid down His life for our sins.... John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Last edited by Richard; 12/08/08 01:15 PM.
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Re: Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
[Re: Tom]
#105791
12/08/08 03:49 PM
12/08/08 03:49 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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It seems odd to affirm that nothing or no one killed Christ. I guess my point is that Christ was killed. Christ did not yield up His life till He had accomplished the work which He came to do, and with His parting breath He exclaimed, "It is finished." John 19:30. The battle had been won. His right hand and His holy arm had gotten Him the victory. As a Conqueror He planted His banner on the eternal heights. Was there not joy among the angels? All heaven triumphed in the Saviour's victory. Satan was defeated, and knew that his kingdom was lost. {DA 758.1} John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. While as a member of the human family He was mortal, as God He was the fountain of life for the world. He could have withstood the advances of death, and refused to come under its dominion; but voluntarily He laid down His life, that He might bring life and immortality to light. He bore the sin of the world, endured its curse, yielded up His life as a sacrifice, that men might not eternally die. {DA 484.1} Voluntarily our divine Substitute bared His soul to the sword of justice, that we might not perish but have everlasting life. Said Christ, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again" (John 10:17, 18). No man of earth or angel of heaven could have paid the penalty for sin. Jesus was the only one who could save rebellious man. {1SM 322.1}
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Re: Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#105792
12/08/08 04:03 PM
12/08/08 04:03 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Richard, consider the fact Jesus bore the weight of the sins of the world within Himself all of His life - not just at the end of His life. In the wilderness of temptation He suffered for our sins in a way very similar to Gethsemane and the Golgotha. Notwithstanding, Jesus tasted, consumed, and conquered our sin and second death on the cross. See quotes above. "Christ did not yield up His life till He had accomplished the work which He came to do, and with His parting breath He exclaimed, "It is finished." John 19:30. Satan, not Jesus, will die the second death with the sins of the saved. It was the scapegoat, not the Lord's goat, that died with the sins of the saved.
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Re: Did Satan intend to kill Christ....?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#105805
12/08/08 06:08 PM
12/08/08 06:08 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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MM, there's no contradiction between Acts 2, and other inspired texts which say Christ was killed, and the texts you quoted. The Bible does not contradict itself. Christ allowed Himself to be killed.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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