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"an eye for an eye" #105819
12/08/08 08:22 PM
12/08/08 08:22 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
so when did "an eye for an eye" start and why?

and how was it to implemented?


Quote:
Gen 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.


Quote:
Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
Gen 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
Gen 4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
Gen 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.


Quote:
Gen 4:23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
Gen 4:24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

Last edited by teresaq; 12/08/08 08:23 PM.

Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: "an eye for an eye" [Re: teresaq] #105832
12/09/08 12:09 AM
12/09/08 12:09 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
"Eye for eye" came up as a way to limit the "justice" which was being applied, which was along the lines of "head for eye." The principle was to repay in kind, as this is better than the alternative of overwhelming destruction for a small offense.

Jesus taught and demonstrated the superior principles of "turn the other cheek," "walk the second mile," which are summarized in the injunction to "love your enemies."


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: "an eye for an eye" [Re: Tom] #105838
12/09/08 01:31 AM
12/09/08 01:31 AM
teresaq  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,984
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Originally Posted By: Tom
"Eye for eye" came up as a way to limit the "justice" which was being applied, which was along the lines of "head for eye." The principle was to repay in kind, as this is better than the alternative of overwhelming destruction for a small offense.

Jesus taught and demonstrated the superior principles of "turn the other cheek," "walk the second mile," which are summarized in the injunction to "love your enemies."


look at the verses and the time frame. there does not seem to be any "justice" before the flood. nothing happened to cain for killing. nothing happened to lamech for killing. there came a time that the earth was filled with violence. but after the flood then a system seems to have to been set in place.

as for your second point, was that what God hoped for after the fall?

Last edited by teresaq; 12/09/08 01:33 AM.

Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: "an eye for an eye" [Re: teresaq] #105844
12/09/08 08:10 AM
12/09/08 08:10 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I'm not really following your train of thought in regards to your comments in the first paragraph.

Regarding your question regarding my second point, yes, God hoped for this after the fall. God has always hoped that we would love others as He loves us.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: "an eye for an eye" [Re: Tom] #105879
12/10/08 02:18 AM
12/10/08 02:18 AM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
this was commanded by God just after the flood. apparently it was not commanded before the flood. we not only do not have any evidence that consequences happened before the flood, it would seem from the two texts recording murder/killing that none were expected.

Gen 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: "an eye for an eye" [Re: teresaq] #105894
12/10/08 06:30 AM
12/10/08 06:30 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I don't think it would be right to conclude anything regarding what was happening before the flood from this. I think the right conclusion would simply be to regard what was being brought to the attention of the reader in Gen. 9. I don't think the implication is one way or the other in regards to these things before the flood.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: "an eye for an eye" [Re: Tom] #105907
12/10/08 07:53 PM
12/10/08 07:53 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
that might be true, but we are given a bit of a glimpse in these two passages.

Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
Gen 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
Gen 4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
Gen 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.



Quote:
Gen 4:23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
Gen 4:24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: "an eye for an eye" [Re: teresaq] #105909
12/10/08 08:09 PM
12/10/08 08:09 PM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
To the crime of murder, in which Cain had led the way, Lamech, the fifth in descent, added polygamy, and, boastfully defiant, he acknowledged God, only to draw from the avenging of Cain an assurance of his own safety. {PP 81.1}


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: "an eye for an eye" [Re: teresaq] #105917
12/10/08 10:42 PM
12/10/08 10:42 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.


One would think after killing someone once, that would be the end of the matter; that is, you can't kill someone seven times. So perhaps the "sevenfold" shouldn't be taken literally, and this may speaking of the same principle as "life for life."


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: "an eye for an eye" [Re: Tom] #105919
12/11/08 12:37 AM
12/11/08 12:37 AM
teresaq  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
we seem to be thinking in different directions.

i dont see any consequences assigned to either cain or lamech for murder. conseqences for anything are not recorded until immediately after the flood. was God hoping that violence would be curbed by assigning consequences?


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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