this is from:
http://www.smyrna.org/Books/ff/ff_pdf/The%20Foundation%20of%20Our%20Faith%206th%20Edition.pdf



the "proof":


this seems rather cut-and-dried. or is it?

Ah, you've found the Smyrna ministry website: yes, they have a fair amount of documentation, and it does appear to be alterations biased in favour of trinitarianism, as I recall off the top of my head.

So what if it's subtle, is there a difference in meaning? In the end, politics in theology can spoil stewardship of literature, not so? Be sure of doctrine from the Bible and sort out the political flack afterwards, eh? More intriguing than this editing, perhaps, is the general, intended content of Coming of the Comforter by Leroy Froom, published in the 20's, which gives the Spirit a personality of personhood independent the Father and Son, a criterion contradictory of the SOP and likely the Bible, yet held by SDA trinitarianism, today, in the SDABC Vol.12.

On the Spirit's pronoun being "it" or "he", "it" isn't exclusively found in the unedited MS of EGW: writers today appearing in the Review, etc, use "it" for the Spirit quite openly, too, so we can best try to avoid repeating history, not so? - that is, not changing our general understanding into something we don't want.

Am I the only person who noted that on one of Stephen Bohr's videos, he changed Ellen White's writing to fit his ideas about who the 24 elders of Revelation 5 and 6 are. He stated that she said that they were from other planets and gave a statement from the Desire of Ages. I happened to have that book open to where he pointed. His statement had her saying, in parenthesis, that the beings from other planets were the 24 elders. My copy of that book had no parentheses. None other that I can find have it, either.
Harold.

Many of the early leaders like Joseph Bates and James White, and others were originally members of churches that didnt accept the Trinity, in their case the Christian Connection Church which rejected the doctrine of the Trinity. But Ellen White slowly with great care settled this matter as she gained understanding and was guided in this important truth. But she did not use direct confrontation on this as seen in her use of the more subtle 'GodHead' but she was very careful in her editing and oversaw any changes.

Richard,

Ellen White never compromised the truth. She was never Trinitarian. Such a concept springs from paganism and has been adopted by Rome as the central doctrine of the Roman Catholic faith, upon which her other doctrines hang. Ellen White was a Protesant missionary, not an agent of Rome.

The Trinity is the binding doctrine of the ecumenical movement. Submission to this imposture is required for membership into 'accepted Christianity'. Those outside are labelled a cult and destined for removal - 'irritants' to the established order, as were the Heruli, the Vandal and the Ostrogoths - the three Germanic tribes rooted up the the little horn of Daniel 7 - because they were antitrinitarian.

Virtually all the SDA pioneers on record rejected the Trinity, though most had come from Trinitarian denominations. They wrote strongly against the Trinity and its heathen influence as recorded in the Review and Herald over the decades. These leading men, the principal writers within Adventism, testify in the church records that they squarely rejected the Trinity as an apostate creed:

• James White
• Joseph Bates
• J. H. Waggoner
• John Loughborough
• J. N. Andrews
• Uriah Smith
• A.T. Jones
• E.J. Waggoner
• R. F. Cottrell
..more recently..
• J.S. Washburn
• Charles S. Longacre

Not once did EGW reprove or rebuke them for standing true to the faith. She endorsed these men, their writings and beliefs, though some later fell away.

Her words are clear. She declared the first fifty years to be doctrinally pure:

"Upon this foundation we have been building for the past fifty years." 2SM 207 (1904)

"The truth that has stood firm against the attacks of the enemy for more than half a century must still be the confidence and comfort of God's people" 9T 70

But she wrote that a change would soon come:

"Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the past fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written." 1SM 204 (1904)

She foresaw the apostasy and the return to Roman.

She was a Protestant and straightly rebuked error as with Dr. Kellogg. She never taught the Trinity, nor ever rebuked the men for speaking against it.

She settled no matter in favour of the Trinity as you suggest. She could not be bought & sold.

I'm I understanding what is mentioned above that EGW and the pioneers didn't believe in the Trinity? That means, their's no Holy Spirit and only the Father and the Son?

There's confusion on this point, Elle. When we use the word "Trinity" we mean the same thing as "the Godhead." However, the Trinity is actually a Catholic doctrine which does mean the same thing we have in mind. I'll mention just one example of a difference in thinking. In the Trinity doctrine, Jesus Christ is continuously begotten, meaning that from all eternity, and continuing as we speak, Jesus Christ is being begotten of the Father. I'll guess I'll mention two. The Trinity doctrine goes on to say that these two, the Father and Son, continuously produce the Holy Spirit. So it's not the idea that we have that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate individuals.

When I say "we," I mean you and I, as I'm assuming you probably think about this similarly to me.

There's some confusion as to what the Trinity doctrine actually is, but I'm quite confident that everyone on this forum, if they understood what it was, would agree that the Trinity doctrine is false.

Ellen White never used the word "Trinity." It's not just that "Godhead" is more subtle, but the thought being conveyed if very much different than what the Catholic Trinity doctrine encompasses.

Where we, on this forum, would have disagreements are regarding questions like the following:

a.When was Jesus Christ begotten?
b.What does it mean to say that Jesus Christ was begotten?
c.Is Jesus Christ playing a role?
d.Was there a time when Jesus Christ did not exist?
e.Is the Holy Spirit a separate self-aware individual?

I think these questions are probably all clear except for c. What I mean by c. is, is it possible that the Father could have come as the representative of the Godhead, and the Son stayed in heaven and played the role that the Father is playing now? (i.e., the members of the Godhead decided amongst themselves who should be the representative, and it was decided Christ would do this. But they could have designated things differently, so that the Son could have played the role of the Father, and so forth).

hmmmmm. how interesting. so no one "tested the spirits"? no one went and checked to see if that were true or not?

im mostly in agreement with you, tom. im not getting into the "begotten" thing, tho.

hey guys, if you could take your trinity debate elsewhere, por please....this topic is to find out if in fact ellen whites writings were altered, edited, etc.

Teresa - Can't say I've verified that particular example of "He" for "it" regarding the Holy Spirit, but it's a common alteration. Having seen several of this type I can atttest to changes of He, Him for "it".

Since you're keen on "testing the spirits", did you check the examples furnished yesterday - Deletion of four pages from the later Great Controversy and addition of a new first chapter to Steps to Christ?

Many alterations were made to lend her writing a Trinity slant, so the issue will crop up if you dig for changes. Have you done any checking?

If someone rips pages out of a book, you'll know it without a missing page count.

Penknife was the word used by Jeremiah. It was liberally employed after the Evangelicals (Donald Barnhouse and Walter Martin) confabbed with the GC officials in the 1950s. Conform or be labelled a cult. So the books were changed. Read the tragic account in 'With Cloak & Dagger" by H.H. Meyer. (Hartland Publications) Equally sad was the expulsion of loyal whistleblower M.L. Andreasen for warning the people in his 'Letters to the Churches' (Teach Services).

If your mind is already made up, there's little point in asking for evidence. Revelation of SOP changes is not an attack on the prophet but instead reveals her true enemies.

the original charges from smyrna:


this is from my ellen white cd.


please show me the alleged change.

this is from the egw estate search site.


again, please show me the alleged change.

i did it with each charge.


thats funny!! you are not looking like a credible person between statements like that and finding out that the smyrna book is not quite truthful.

but dont let me stop you. keep attacking those who who choose to verify the charges. come the second coming it will all be over.