HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,641
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 15
kland 6
Daryl 2
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
Rick H
Rick H
Florida, USA
Posts: 3,127
Joined: January 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
3 registered members (Karen Y, daylily, dedication), 3,117 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
What is the harm in changing our beliefs and reforming Adventism? #107739
01/22/09 05:14 PM
01/22/09 05:14 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,127
Florida, USA
Well I was contemplating this weekend all the issues that change and reform of our core beliefs brought up, when a view of it was unveiled right in front of my very eyes.

I went to a relatives Bat Mitzvah, "one (f.) to whom the commandments apply;" which is a term to describe the coming of age of a Jewish girl. According to Jewish law, when Jewish children reach the age of majority (generally thirteen years for boys and twelve for girls) they become responsible for their actions, and "become a Bar or Bat Mitzvah." In many Conservative and Reform synagogues, girls celebrate their Bat Mitzvahs at age 13, along with boys. Prior to this, the child's parents are responsible for the child's adherence to Jewish law and tradition, and after this age, children bear their own responsibility for Jewish ritual law, tradition, and ethics and are privileged to participate in all areas of Jewish community life.

Well it was at a Reform synagogue as Miami is always evolving and very forward looking but I thought it would still be very close to what I would see at a Conservative if not a Orthodox synagogue. Well coming to the friday night service was a true joy, the temple was filled with many people all dressed in their finest. We read from a prayer book which had many verses from scripture on various subjects and sang songs as the girls participated up front. Afterwards they had celebratory meal prepared with family, friends, and members of the community. I wondered why Adventist didnt come to such a friday service with as much energy and life to it.

Well come Sabbath morning, the Bat Mitzvah usually is associated with the young man or woman being called to read the Torah and/or Haftarah portion at a Shabbat service, so I thought it would be pretty close to the previous service. When we got there they had cleaning people preparing the temple and the lawn being groomed with many machines and trimmers. Well as I was reading the prayer book I came across a part that said a traditional section had been deleted which had to do with observing Gods commandments and the results. When the program began, we sang and read some of the same things from the night before and some new ones, then the girls read the torah.


I asked my wife and she had asked and found out that what the girls read had been practiced and prepared in detail, but they could not actually read and understand the other parts of the torah which had words outside of the selected part. The ceremony included a bowing to the actual synagogue torah which was then carried around for people to touch to show respect.

As soon as the program finished they had another celebratory meal with family, friends, and members of the community. But this celebratory meal eclipsed the religious ceremony itself, I later found out most of the people had come only for this which rivals a wedding celebration in extravagance.

It dawned on me that they were just going through the motions of ceremony and tradition, belief in what God had given them had been set aside. Some come for the Shabbat service itself at the synagogue, but most come for these types of programs or celebrations. And as the synagogue has one scheduled virtually every Shabbat there were always family, friends, and members of the community that attend, so the synagogue as any good theater always has a show to come to..

It seems change has taken all the strength out of their spiritual life and gutted their beliefs, and left them with a empty shell of tradition....

Last edited by Richard; 01/22/09 05:16 PM.
Re: What is the harm in changing our beliefs and reforming Adventism? [Re: Rick H] #107741
01/22/09 09:15 PM
01/22/09 09:15 PM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
that is very sad. but hasnt it been like that since they rejected Jesus as a group? im sure there are individuals who sincerely worship the God they know, but as a group it has been mostly about lip service, hasnt it?


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: What is the harm in changing our beliefs and reforming Adventism? [Re: teresaq] #107748
01/22/09 11:39 PM
01/22/09 11:39 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
Mostly true Richard. But modern Judaism still carries a strong tradition of family. Generally a high regard for the elders and for community. While centered around the synagogue as a secular hub, at least they stick together. Overall it seems less empty than modern Adventism because they like to come together, share, do business, interact. There is a human element which would exist without the temple. And they will build one from scratch just so they can congregate. This perspective from a city with thousands of holocaust survivors and strong communal fabric. My first Bar Mitzvah at age twelve resembles your description - party, food, bling, an absence of alcohol. But there was a warmth, even to strangers which continues to this day. And a certain code of generosity and honour amongst many.

Re: What is the harm in changing our beliefs and reforming Adventism? [Re: gordonb1] #107758
01/23/09 08:29 PM
01/23/09 08:29 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,127
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: gordonb1
Mostly true Richard. But modern Judaism still carries a strong tradition of family. Generally a high regard for the elders and for community. While centered around the synagogue as a secular hub, at least they stick together. Overall it seems less empty than modern Adventism because they like to come together, share, do business, interact. There is a human element which would exist without the temple. And they will build one from scratch just so they can congregate. This perspective from a city with thousands of holocaust survivors and strong communal fabric. My first Bar Mitzvah at age twelve resembles your description - party, food, bling, an absence of alcohol. But there was a warmth, even to strangers which continues to this day. And a certain code of generosity and honour amongst many.



Yes, thats why I like to participate whenever I get a chance as it is very nice program, and we are treated like family by everyone, but spiritually the worship is dead. They treat the synagogue as most other non-Jews treat the country club, they go there to make business contacts, socialize, play and eat then go home. They pay fees as set for their place in the temple and their names on the walls, and they have much enjoyment in the temple, but something is missing. The prayer book was the same one I had read before, with the same pages being recited just updated, some even knew it by memory. Its like a play that everyone knows the words but the true meaning has faded...

Last edited by Richard; 01/23/09 08:38 PM.
Re: What is the harm in changing our beliefs and reforming Adventism? [Re: Rick H] #107765
01/24/09 02:13 AM
01/24/09 02:13 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
Yes, this is truly sad, but what is truly even more sad is that this is not only happening there. It is also happening in many of our own Christian churches.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: What is the harm in changing our beliefs and reforming Adventism? [Re: Daryl] #107774
01/24/09 09:57 AM
01/24/09 09:57 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,127
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
Yes, this is truly sad, but what is truly even more sad is that this is not only happening there. It is also happening in many of our own Christian churches.


Yes, the Lutherans and Anglicans, and a few others seem to have lost much of the zeal in their beliefs and seem to be without direction and drifting back to the Holy See as he is called and slowly acknowlinging his power and the Catholic Church's as the 'leader of the Christian world'.

Last edited by Richard; 01/24/09 09:58 AM.
Re: What is the harm in changing our beliefs and reforming Adventism? [Re: Rick H] #107776
01/24/09 01:16 PM
01/24/09 01:16 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,127
Florida, USA
Here is some of the agreements the Anglicans are working on ....

"The Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC) has released its latest document in its continuing dialogue....

"The Revd Canon Gregory Cameron, Anglican Co-Secretary of ARCIC, speaking in Seattle said,'This document represents sustained reflection on an aspect of Christian faith in which many Christians have found spiritual strength. It is our hope that all Christians will be helped by this statement to understand why Mary has been a figure of such significance.'" http://www.wfn.org/2005/05/msg00152.html

quote:
----------
"What does the text say about Marian devotion?

"The final major section of the document (paragraphs 64-75) addresses the place of Mary in the life of the Church, touching on questions pertaining to Marian devotion. The section begins with a strong affirmation:'We together agree that in understanding Mary as the fullest human example of the life of grace, we are called to reflect on the lessons of her life recorded in Scripture and to join with her as one indeed not dead, but truly alive in Christ'(paragraph 65). The text stresses that Marian devotion and the invocation of Mary are not in any way to obscure or diminish the unique mediation of Christ. It concludes:

'Affirming together unambiguously Christ's unique mediation, which bears fruit in the life of the Church, we do not consider the practice of asking Mary and the saints to pray for us as communion dividing.... we believe that there is no continuing theological reason for ecclesial division on these matters.'"
----------

http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acns/article...

A third article on the agreement of the veneration and worship of Mary...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C3...

says,
quote:
----------
"In the passage likely to cause most dissent, the document says the infallible dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption - the teachings that Mary was herself conceived 'without sin' and that on death she was 'assumed' body and soul into Heaven - are 'consonant with the teaching of the Scriptures'."

This doctrine is certainly not biblical and leads to idol worship and its roots are from pagan worship of the ' Queen of Heaven '

http://sabbatarian.com/Paganism/Queen01.html
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/sunburst.htm
http://www.spiralgoddess.com/Mary.html

Last edited by Richard; 01/24/09 02:09 PM.

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 05/21/24 04:50 PM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 05/21/24 02:04 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 05/06/24 12:18 PM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by kland. 05/17/24 04:47 PM
Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:33 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:29 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Rick H. 05/06/24 12:27 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by kland. 05/06/24 10:32 AM
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Rick H. 05/03/24 10:09 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 05/02/24 08:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1