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Re: Lesson #6 - Testing the PROPHETS
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108497
02/17/09 09:48 AM
02/17/09 09:48 AM
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That's more a matter of interpretation than anything. If we were living in their day, yes, we would have interpreted their words to apply to "our" day...as we also do now, and has probably been done in every generation after them. Did the disciples understand that the 2300 day prophecy began in 457 BC and ended in 1844 AD, and that it pinpointed the year Jesus began His public ministry, and the year He dead on the cross, and the year probation closed for the nation of Israel? There are two "comings" of Christ: 1) His coming in judgment; and 2) His coming in the clouds of glory. The most important moment for each of us is the first one. We will not know it. It is as a thief in the night. The second one, we will know. Its hour is to be announced in advance, and every eye will see it. It is this first one that God is pleased to have us know is imminent, and comes to every generation, and at such a time as we think not. When the disciples spoke about the nearness of Jesus' coming, were they referring to the first or second coming you mentioned above? Also, in light of what we know about Jesus entering the most holy place in heaven in 1844, was it true that the first coming you mentioned above was imminent for those who lived in the centuries preceding the 17th century? Mike, Here's what the Bible has to say about this coming in judgment: Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. (1 Peter 4:5, KJV)
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; (2 Timothy 4:1, KJV)
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. (Acts 10:42, KJV)
"Quick" refers to those alive. God will judge the dead as well as those who remain alive, right? Well, asking if God comes to those previous generations in judgment is about like asking if God will judge the dead. No one knows when he will die. But at that time of death, his probation ceases and he is ready to be judged. I do not believe the disciples understood the 2300-day prophecy. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Lesson #6 - Testing the PROPHETS
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#108549
02/17/09 09:49 PM
02/17/09 09:49 PM
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M: Did the disciples understand that the 2300 day prophecy began in 457 BC and ended in 1844 AD, and that it pinpointed the year Jesus began His public ministry, and the year He dead on the cross, and the year probation closed for the nation of Israel?
GC: I do not believe the disciples understood the 2300-day prophecy. Did they understand that prophecy pinpointed the year Jesus began His public ministry, and the year He died on the cross, and the year probation closed for the nation of Israel? M: When the disciples spoke about the nearness of Jesus' coming, were they referring to the first or second coming you mentioned above? Also, in light of what we know about Jesus entering the most holy place in heaven in 1844, was the first coming you mentioned above imminent for those who lived in the centuries preceding the 17th century?
GC: God will judge the dead as well as those who remain alive, right? Well, asking if God comes to those previous generations in judgment is about like asking if God will judge the dead. No one knows when he will die. But at that time of death, his probation ceases and he is ready to be judged. It sounds like you apply "coming in judgment" to the dead (for those who lived prior to 1844). Is this the "coming" the apostles had in mind when they wrote things that made it appear they believed Jesus' return could happen in their lifetime?
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Re: Lesson #6 - Testing the PROPHETS
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108566
02/18/09 03:51 AM
02/18/09 03:51 AM
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Mike,
If you have some evidence to the contrary, I am very much interested to hear it. Until I understand otherwise...
I do not believe the disciples understood the fact that Jesus' ministry was prophesied to begin in a certain year. The fact is, every Jewish mother hoped her son would be the Messiah, and yet only the Wise Men from the East actually seemed to have understood the prophecy. Most of Israel was in darkness. Perhaps Anna and Simeon were the only exceptions. If there were other exceptions, I do not see them as being among the disciples.
The only way one might construe that the disciples knew of these prophecies is if we make an assumption. The assumption would be that Jesus Himself explained these prophecies to them on the road to Emmaus. However, we have no record of such, and none of the New Testament writers seems to have indicated a knowledge of these time prophecies.
I apply the "coming in judgment" to the "close of probation," and I further apply the "close of probation" on an individual basis. So, in a very real sense, God comes to each of us in our own time, and in our own generation. For the antediluvians, the close of probation came seven days ahead of the flood, when the door to the ark was shut. They were ignorant, however, of the fact that their probation had closed, and that they had been judged...that their fate had been decided. They only became aware of this when the torrents came.
Jesus likened the end times to Noah's day. In making this comparison, He said "of that day and hour knoweth no man, no not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." He goes on to describe the day in which Noah entered the ark (the same day the door was shut), and says the wicked "knew not until the flood came and took them all away." (Matthew 24:36-38) In this story, the two comings are paralleled. First, the coming in judgment when God shut the door. Second, the coming in justice when the righteous and the wicked are separated; the wicked to destruction, while the righteous are saved.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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